Almost shot my brother...

[Jeremiah]

gonna air a little dirty laundry, but I'm looking for advice.

My brother and I have a history of fights, nothing too over the top especially for syblings, used all sorts of improvised weapons in the past when we were like 6-14 then a few years of peace through high school and after. Things like rooms and chairs were common but always ended the confrontation with just one whap or two. All but a few of these altercations started around household chores and whatever kids fit about really, no big deal. The discussions always went to arguments, he would bring up past events, and then try to make fun of me. I would say something that dug a little deep and he'd try and hit me. that was how most fights between us got started. he still looks back ( he is nearly 21 now) as though I chased him down and beat him for no real reason, and I can assure you I have never really beat him, I can't honestly recall ever hitting him with a closed fist. Most of the time I just wrestled him into submisson. After all its my brother, I don't want to hurt him, but I'm not gonna take a beating either. He also still holds a lot of resentent from my parents divorce, he is still mad about alot of things my parents did during and after the divorce, and only got worse after the divorce as I stepped up into the "dad" role alot of times. ( this is a just a little backround for additional insight)

but recently we had an event that has me on edge and I'd like to get some advice. We are both hard pressed for money as neither of us have been working since april and our lease is up. My dad who has basically lived with his girlfriend for the last 8 years only is at his place to mow the lawn, cut wood, and work in his shop, offered to let us move back to his house. THis helps us get back on our feet, gives us a cheaper place to live as we have been traveling for work when we worked over the last year, gives me a safe to house my guns and gets someone cheacking our stuff on a daily basis, ( a nice feature when you are working 16 hours away) but as my dad has rarely been in his house over the last 8 years it is in need of some TLC and lots of cleaning. Sunday we went to to make another trip to clean, toss stuff that needs disposed of and just get ready to move in. My sister and her boyfreind went with us to help, and we were out by the burn pile. I tried to motivate my brother as I didn't want to be there all night. It was 9 o clock and I had to get up at 4 to head to lafayette to teach. My brother got mouthy and like a good older brother/construction worker/ welder, I got motuthy back after a few words he finally said he couldn't find some tools. I informed him that they were alreay inside when for when he was ready. as he alked towards the house he pinched my chest. SO I kicked him, kinda half hazardly in the front of the leg. He goes into a rage and pulls out his 26 asp brand baton and comes my way. I have thankfully started to learn Escrima over the summer, so this wasn't as bad as it could have been. As an ASP can cause alot of damage in trained hands. I have some bruises on my side, my wrist is bruised and I have a bloody spot on my left eyeball. I ended up pushing him toards my dad's truck and about the time I pushed him into the brush guard MY sisters boyfreind came behind him and putt him to the ground.


I have been carrying my J fram in the front hip pocket and took it out earlier as a groundhog lives by the driveway on my dads property and I often see it whe I pull in. but when he came at me with the asp I reached for it. when I felt it wasn't their I stepped in and blocked, then started to just defend my self. I also reached for my pocket knife but decided to just defend as this is my brother. Now on the surface have know problemn If someone comes at me with a weapon I'm going to defend my self with equal or greater force, as I don't like pain. Now I understand fully that It all could have been avoided by not kicking him, but I am gonna use the " he started it line. because physical contact started from him, not out of reaction/ training I went to draw a gun because someone came at me with a weapon. Had I drawn my gun in that situation I would have stated to retreat ( to gain distance) would have issued a warning ( not the greatest plan I know) , and then fired. In this case shooting my brother, intentionally and on purpose with the goal of stopping an attack.

Any one have advice, legal or otherwise, experiences that trip you up a little? etc. I would be appreciated. because Again, My brother attacked me with a metal baton ( asp) and I almost shot him. IT is botherint my right now, and I still don't know what to do, if he came at me once, what will stop him from doing it again, the next time an argument breaks out?

 

[public servant]

You both have issues (anger and other). Sell the guns and batons and seek counseling before one or both of you end up dead.

 

[Soundslikejosh]

Time to man up. Go to him and say, "listen, our little fights are getting out of hand and someone is going to get hurt when neither of us really wants that. Lets act like men and not be jerks to each other. I've made my mistakes, but can we just leave them behind us?"

Everybody gets pissed sometimes but you cant go around using other people as punching bags, especially not your family. The rest of the world will leave you laying in a ditch, but your family is always your family. That is, until you ruin a relationship and they forget about the fact that you are blood. Fix this now before you regret it.

 

[paddling_man]

It sounds like there is no mutual respect. Be brothers but not roommates.

My brother is six years older and tried to play the "dad" figure when my father left - I was 3. Lots of good and bad in that situation. That behavior became... awkward when we hit late teens / early twenties.

I'm forty now. I love my brother. It is also a good thing for a variety of reasons that we live 800 miles away from one another. We would do anything for one another. We will NOT live together.

 

[The Meach]

This is gonna sound cold, but you may want to sit down and seriously self-assess before you continue to carry.

Also you need to go in and get some training...

 

[Jeremiah]

You both have issues (anger and other). Sell the guns and batons and seek counseling before one or both of you end up dead.

can you elaborate on the issues you think he or I have besides anger? I have worked my whole life to control my temper and even that night I didn't get mad till after it was over, and he was inside, I grew up with a bad temper and learned from kids at school that mad in an situation doesn't make it better and in a fight it leads to you loosing and and often times if you started it, you are also in trouble. I don't look for fights, but a few have found me in my life, and as far as reaching for my pistol I was a mindset reaction, you attack me with a weapon you will be meet with one.

 

[Lucas156]

You and your brother are obviously not fit to be roommates. Face it some people just can't live together. It doesn't mean you can't hang out and see each other. My brother and I lived together for about a year and there was too much conflict there so we don't live together now. Our relationship is ten times better. If it costs more in the meantime looking for a different roommate it is worth it.

 

[sparky241]

ok i have to second soundslikejosh. Dont you think you 2 are acting a little immature? My brother and i had fights like that a long time ago but we grew out of it and learned to act like adults because we became adults. age is just a number sometimes adults can act like children.You need to fix this or one day one of you is going to end up dead. You also need to remember you are his brother not his boss or father. Act like an adult brother.

 

[Jeremiah]

I'm forty now. I love my brother. It is also a good thing for a variety of reasons that we live 800 miles away from one another. We would do anything for one another. We will NOT live together.

we have also traveled and worked together for the last year, before that we lived in a place together in fort wayne and shared a bedroom of and on for years. I understand a lot fo what your saying here. I've just always been inclined to work things out My dad and his siblings don't talk because of issues with their parents divorce and money issues when the family farm got spilt up and sold.

 

[agentl074]

Domestic situations are never good. If you can't work it out, then you will have to stay away from each other. Time can heal wounds....

 

[Jeremiah]

This is gonna sound cold, but you may want to sit down and seriously self-asses before you continue to carry.

Also you need to go in and get some training...

cold is fine, what are you suggesting I asses though? what are you thinking I should look at specifically?

 

[medic67]

There is one thing to fight amongst yourselves like brothers do, but when it comes to pulling batons and from what you said if it had been in your pocket you would have pulled a pistol, you guys need to step back and realize there are some serious issues going on. You guys are lucky no one got hurt, killed or the very least arrested.

 

[Jeremiah]

You also need to remember you are his brother not his boss or father. Act like an adult brother.

I only act like his boss when we are working on something together and he asks me what to do, then I step up and start giving direction.

ask far as the father thing, we've had alot of discussions recently that have helped pull me out of that roll, but I keep being the first person he comes to for help, with nearly any issue, money, women, etc. I have always been the first to help when he needs it, and the first to listen, I am also the first to criticize or congratulate because I'm their. there has been a lot of tension latley because of money, he comes to me whining because I'll listen ask for advice, then gets mad when I give it to him and drag things up from recent memory to help him remeber and to learn. it has been my example form other family members that at a certain point thats what you do as brother for each other. help. give advice, and teach.

 

[The Meach]

cold is fine, what are you suggesting I asses though? what are you thinking I should look at specifically?

Whether or not you should own/carry firearms.

If you can trust yourself to be able to, in the moment, make the correct decision to (or not to) Fire.

If you are sure that you will not misuse the gun.

If you are Sure that it would only be used to protect life, and not end a fight out of fear.

If you can trust yourself to follow the principles that you set for yourself. even in situations that involve stress or fear.

If you are willing or able make the right choice between an injury to yourself and the life of another (especially the life of your brother)

The purpose of a firearm is to kill. Plain and simple. Not to wound, not to warn, but to kill. And The ONLY time that the use of such deadly force is ok is to preserve life.

To Preserve Life.

And a fight with a sibling, even one where you stand to take a hell of a beating is not the place for you to draw or even think of drawing a firearm.

So as i said, you need to sit down and self-assess to find out if you should have that gun.

 

[agentl074]

It just sounds like you both need a long cooling off period If verbal altercations turn into physical ones, things get sideways real quick I would suggest a confrontation management course. We had to take them in law enforcement in order to deescalate situations. If you cannot deescalate a domestic situation, you may not be prepared for a predicament outside of family.

 

[sparky241]

I only act like his boss when we are working on something together and he asks me what to do, then I step up and start giving direction.

thats fine but leave it on the job site


ask far as the father thing, we've had alot of discussions recently that have helped pull me out of that roll, but I keep being the first person he comes to for help, with nearly any issue, money, women, etc. I have always been the first to help when he needs it, and the first to listen, I am also the first to criticize or congratulate because I'm their. there has been a lot of tension latley because of money, he comes to me whining because I'll listen ask for advice, then gets mad when I give it to him and drag things up from recent memory to help him remeber and to learn.


Stop bringing up the past,people can change and maybe he wants to forget how he was and just look toward the future.


it has been my example form other family members that at a certain point thats what you do as brother for each other. help. give advice, and teach.
yes but be cool and friendly about it. You should be more like a friend. Dont tell him that it has to be done like this or that. Offer the advice and let him do what he wants with it.

you know what buttons will set him off, just try to avoid those. Like my brother hates being told his age so i stay away from that.He likes to learn new thing, but doesnt want to be my slave so when we work together i try to show him how i do things and even offer an alternative. but how he does it is pretty much up to him.

 

[Jeremiah]

Whether or not you should own/carry firearms.

If you can trust yourself to be able to, in the moment, make the correct decision to (or not to) Fire.

If you are sure that you will not misuse the gun.

If you are Sure that it would only be used to protect life, and not end a fight out of fear.

If you can trust yourself to follow the principles that you set for yourself. even in situations that involve stress or fear.

If you are willing or able make the right choice between an injury to yourself and the life of another (especially the life of your brother)

The purpose of a firearm is to kill. Plain and simple. Not to wound, not to warn, but to kill. And The ONLY time that the use of such deadly force is ok is to preserve life.

To Preserve Life.

And a fight with a sibling, even one where you stand to take a hell of a beating is not the place for you to draw or even think of drawing a firearm.

So as i said, you need to sit down and self-assess to find out if you should have that gun.

most of this is why I got my LTCH in the first place, family friends, myself, to be in those situations your read about where someone got killed or rapped, and not been able to do anyhting about it. I knew years ago that if I was ever in a situation where I watched a freind or family member be killed or injuryed and just watched that it wouldn't set wel with me. I learn and lisent all the time and have taken some training with the force continuim aspect in mind. and the only reason I reached for my gun was with the intention to shoot. In that situation fear is real. He came at me in anger with a weapon that can kill. There was a whole lot wrong with that situation and I'm trying to figure out ways to deal with it, and get it in his head that ii is never to happen again. I don't want to shoot anyone, let alone a family member. but if it comes down to self defense or the defending a family member or freind, or possibly a strangers life, I can handle that. but his even went way out of hand, I could have been killed, when that baton came at me I was fully aware of this fact, at the point that someone is weilding a deadly weapon at me I go into self preservation mode. Self defense is my first objective, or at least should be I had two waved spydercos on me, and didn't draw them, I took more of a beating then I should have becasue this is my brother and I don't whish him harm. but he attacked me first, and then came again with a deadly weapon.

 

[Jeremiah]

thats fine but leave it on the job site

On a Job site unless we are but together on a task I am very rarley the boss, we generally work in differnt areas of the same job. when he asks me something it is about what we are doing. that day it was about cleaning, and he was trying to figure out where to go next. alot of this argument started over carpet removal, which was his goal in coming down


Stop bringing up the past,people can change and maybe he wants to forget how he was and just look toward the future.
People can change, and If I bring up the past is is to tell a story or a joke, if I referece something it is recent, the last year he would get laid off from a job and blow all his cash in the first two weeks home, he is broke right now and last month was having trouble getting rent money, came to me with a poor me attitude, I brought up the three less the year old spending frenzies because they got him in this mess now, I learned from my older sister that lending money to solve a crisis is worhtless if they are going to repeat the mistake, and get introuble in again in a few weeks,


yes but be cool and friendly about it. You should be more like a friend. Dont tell him that it has to be done like this or that. Offer the advice and let him do what he wants with it.

genarrally what I do, give him the advice and walk away, if he asks for my opinion I give it to him, I don't prove why its the best, or any of that tuff, nor do I set around for debate.

 

[Indy317]

If you don't want to sell your gun, you need to stay away from your brother. If you need work, move to an area where you can find a job. Being around your brother is going to end up getting someone hurt. I fought with my brother, when we were in high school, and only for two years or so. Eventually we all grew up. Only having your side of the story, if true, your brother has not grown up. If a 21 year old feels it necessary to pull a metal baton and attack a blood relative, something is not right. The problem you have is "What if...?" What if he gets a good whack in? What if he has you on the ground and is actually beating you with the baton? What will happen? Will you take it? Will you be seriously hurt? Will you kill him? Will he kill you?

If your side of the story is 100% true, then you need to get away from your brother asap. It also sounds like you need to separate from your dysfunctional family. You come across as someone who has their head on straight (given that we are only getting _your_ side to the story), so it is time for you to go out on your own and live your life. Stop worrying about your brother. Just get a job, get your own place, and see him around the holidays or special events. Don't bailout him out with any issue. If he ask for advice, tell him to seek it from someone else. If he is coming to you for advice on various topics, then he still sees you as somewhat of an authority figure. He needs to be taking his love life advice to his friends, not you. He needs to figure out how to balance his own checkbook and seek advice from his banker, not you. Basically, he wants you there for A, B, and C, and that likely makes you still feel like a parent, so when you tell him to do X, Y, and Z, things he never asked from you, he explodes.

Lets say you know right from wrong. As long as he ask you for various advice, you are always going to feel like a parent to him. As such, you are always going to give him advice when he is doing something you perceive as wrong. He doesn't like that and only wants you for a crutch/parent figure when _he_ has a specific issue.

genarrally what I do, give him the advice and walk away, if he asks for my opinion I give it to him, I don't prove why its the best, or any of that tuff, nor do I set around for debate.

Don't do this anymore, at least for a while (like years). Your brother needs to find his own way in life and it sounds like he is coming to you for advice on a constant basis. My sister asks me for advice every so often, but it is very specific in nature and only a couple times a year. My brother almost never asks me for advice and I rarely ask either of them for advice. They know a lot about computers, so if I have a computer issue, I obviously go to them.

 

[DHolder]

Sell those guns and batons, use the money to get some help! It sounds like neither one of you need to be around weapons with the anger management problems you have. Good luck