An honest question

[Garb]

The Free Market: The Sad Legacy of Ronald Reagan

I thought that Reagan's policies lowered the debt... Is this just a bunch of liberal crap, or is this true? I've seen quite a lot of articles that make arguments along these same lines, and it makes me wonder...

 

[Mgderf]

The Free Market: The Sad Legacy of Ronald Reagan

I thought that Reagan's policies lowered the debt... Is this just a bunch of liberal crap, or is this true? I've seen quite a lot of articles that make arguments along these same lines, and it makes me wonder...

You got it, first time too!

 

[mrjarrell]

Nope, it's not "liberal crap". It comes from the von Mises Institute, the least liberal place on the planet. Reagan worshipers just hate hearing that their man-god wasn't all they'd like him to be in their imaginations. None of the things they stated in the article are false.

 

[Jack Ryan]

The Free Market: The Sad Legacy of Ronald Reagan

I thought that Reagan's policies lowered the debt... Is this just a bunch of liberal crap, or is this true? I've seen quite a lot of articles that make arguments along these same lines, and it makes me wonder...

That's the first step in thinking for yourself.

Now it that's not what you are really after and all you wanted was around of cheers so you could continue the "liberal crap" line of propaganda and never be bothered to make the effort of actually thinking for yourself, you've come to the right place.

rah rah rah, sis boom ba!liberal crap for all!

Every year, Reagan asked for more foreign-aid money than the Congress was willing to spend. He also pushed through Congress an $8.4 billion increase in the U.S. "contribution" to the International Monetary Fund.

His budget cuts were actually cuts in projected spending, not absolute cuts in current spending levels. As Reagan put it, "We're not attempting to cut either spending or taxing levels below that which we presently have."

The result has been unprecedented government debt. Reagan has tripled the Gross Federal Debt, from $900 billion to $2.7 trillion. Ford and Carter in their combined terms could only double it. It took 31 years to accomplish the first postwar debt tripling, yet Reagan did it in eight.

 

[Garb]

That's the first step in thinking for yourself.

Now it that's not what you are really after and all you wanted was around of cheers so you could continue the "liberal crap" line of propaganda and never be bothered to make the effort of actually thinking for yourself, you've come to the right place.

rah rah rah, sis boom ba!liberal crap for all!

No not at all haha, I just wanted the opinion of people who were actually around while Reagan was president (I was born in 1988). I think he was on the right track with a lot of things, but from what research I've done, it seems as if he employed the classic bait and switch once he got elected. At least, that's what I understand from most of the articles I've read on the issue.

 

[jbombelli]

People love Reagan for the Iran hostages being released the day he came in, Grenada, pushing the USSR more quickly into bankruptcy with expensive military programs like Star Wars (they tried to keep up with our spending), his pro-America and anti-communist rhetoric, etc. Reagan was the consummate Cold Warrior, and a lot of people became proud to be Americans again during his tenure in office.


You want to know why he's loved today? People remember a time when their president inspired them and brought back a feeling of pride after Vietnam, terrorism, gas crunches and stupid presidents destroyed their faith in America.

Unfortunately they overlook a lot of the other things he did, or are blinded to them, just as there are some people out there that would think Obama did a great job with the oil spill if he was caught on video pouring oil on seagulls.

 

[pudly]

People love Reagan largely because he was such a godsend after the Carter disaster. The Iranian hostage release was a very favorable start, but his legacy of forcing an end to the decades long cold war, greatly improving the nation's economy, and getting people to believe in our country again after the Carter "malaise" were all welcome changes.

Horrible inflation, high federal income taxes, and high unemployment were Carter's economic legacy. They even developed a measurement for it, the misery index. Click through to see a chart of the "misery indexes" of all administrations from Truman on. Reagan had 2 of the 3 best periods in improving these basic economic indicators. If they get their act together (a big if), the first Republican administration after Obama will have an opportunity for a very positive record as well.

Reagan was no god, but he was right on so many conservative arguments that he is very well remembered.

 

[thompal]

The Free Market: The Sad Legacy of Ronald Reagan

I thought that Reagan's policies lowered the debt... Is this just a bunch of liberal crap, or is this true? I've seen quite a lot of articles that make arguments along these same lines, and it makes me wonder...

During the Reagan years, his goal was to "defeat" the USSR. Since the USSR tried to match our military and defense spending, Reagan (thought) that if we ramped up our spending that the USSR would do likewise, but their economy would never sustain it, and it would bankrupt them, hopefully before it would bankrupt us.

It worked, but at a cost - our debt rose through the roof. I think that Reagan believed that once the USSR was gone, that our military and defense spending could come down to reasonable levels, but he didn't take into account the fact that once the military industrial complex gets that sort of clout, it will never let go. He didn't heed Eisenhower's warning.

 

[88GT]

The Free Market: The Sad Legacy of Ronald Reagan

I thought that Reagan's policies lowered the debt... Is this just a bunch of liberal crap, or is this true? I've seen quite a lot of articles that make arguments along these same lines, and it makes me wonder...

They did, and they didn't.

I didn't read the link (short on time right now, so I'll have to come back), but Reagan signed the legislation that lowered the tax rates which should have increased federal revenues. However, Reagan also spent like crazy on the military and other defense-related issues which caused us to run a deficit each year. Multiple years of deficit spending lead to an increase in total debt.

Reagan also knew his deficit spending was an imperfect choice, but weighed against the options on the table at the time, I think it was probably the correct one. Cutting the tax rates was the single biggest factor in getting the economy moving again after it stagnated under Carter. People were a heck of a lot more willing to accept the deficit spending when times were better and for reasons such as national defense than they are now when the deficit spending is not only at record levels, but when this is one of the leanest periods of economic productivity since post-WW2. It's even less palatable since the spending is on unconstitutional programs that benefit a subset of the population instead of everyone equally.

 

[Jack Ryan]

No not at all haha, I just wanted the opinion of people who were actually around while Reagan was president (I was born in 1988). I think he was on the right track with a lot of things, but from what research I've done, it seems as if he employed the classic bait and switch once he got elected. At least, that's what I understand from most of the articles I've read on the issue.

It's like being from Ethiopia, it's a good place to be from. Far from. People like Reagan a lot more the further we are from him and the more poorly thier memory.

He didn't seem like any thing special to me then nor now. You've got to remember the republicans had Ford and Nixon as president before Reagan. It takes a lot of fertilizer to make a field productive after you've farmed it that hard.

The people who took the hostages in Iran decided when they would give them up, NOT Ronald Reagan.

During the Reagan years, his goal was to "defeat" the USSR. Since the USSR tried to match our military and defense spending, Reagan (thought) that if we ramped up our spending that the USSR would do likewise, but their economy would never sustain it, and it would bankrupt them, hopefully before it would bankrupt us.

It was our goal for 50 years before Reagan was president. He never mentioned it any more than any other president before him, UNTIL AFTER IT HAPPENED. The like Pee Wee Herman he was all about, "I meant to do that."

 

[Coach]

Reagan deserves plenty of credit for the release of the hostages and for ending the Cold War. The people in Iran knew that RR was going to be a totally different issue than Carter. Good, bad, right or wrong he was not going to mess around.

He heated the Cold War up in order to win it. Nixon and Ford and detente greatly prolonged the struggle and RR ended it with return to confronting the evils of communism. So many academics scoff at the label Evil Empire but it was dead on accurate and Ronnie made it the comment and it stuck and his actions put the USSR down. Star Wars was huge.

Reganomics and farm policy and some other stuff sucked. His cowboy image with no gun sucked as well. He was on TV during prime time way too much for my liking. But he had a mandate.

 

[pudly]

He didn't seem like any thing special to me then nor now.

Reagan won 49 of 50 states for a landslide going into his second term. Obviously others were far more impressed than you were by his performance.

It was our goal for 50 years before Reagan was president. He never mentioned it any more than any other president before him, UNTIL AFTER IT HAPPENED. The like Pee Wee Herman he was all about, "I meant to do that."

Actually, Reagan was out of office long before 50 years. He was first elected 33 years after the Cold War began. I don't know whether or not he foresaw the outright collapse of the Soviet Union, but his opposition and attempts to defeat them were no fluke:

1. Describing the Soviet Union as an "Evil Empire".
2. Another quote: "The forward march of freedom and democracy will leave Marxism-Leninism on the ash-heap of history".
   
3. Reagan specifically rejected the previous policy of détente, which saw the Soviet Union continue to intimidate and invade other countries in favor of a policy of much stronger opposition, including the Reagan Doctrine which supported anti-communist groups worldwide. and SDI (aka Star Wars), which was impractical at the time, but never the less added additional pressure against the Soviets and eventually became our current missile defense program.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Reagan deserves plenty of credit for the release of the hostages and for ending the Cold War. The people in Iran knew that RR was going to be a totally different issue than Carter. Good, bad, right or wrong he was not going to mess around.

Oh baloney. They couldn't predict the future any more than Nostrodamus could.

People take what happens after the fact and make it fit what ever they can find in the past to make it what they want. They may have made a decision a month one way or the other but after bickering with Carter they would have waited until the next president took office no matter who it was so long as it made it look like Carter didn't get any thing from them. No one was any more "scared" in to any thing by Ronnie Ray Gun taking office than any one else.

Monkey movie actor democrat turn coat republican scared Iranian hostage takers on the other side of the world, that's rich. What were they afraid off? Him riding in on a horse and beheading them like one of his movie characters? Remember the huge rescue fiascoes in the desert that already blew up in our face at the time, oh but RR turned all that around in a week or two and had them all peeing down their leg right?

You can rewrite history for these kids but I lived it. I know exactly what happened and when as it happened every day.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Reagan won 49 of 50 states for a landslide going into his second term. Obviously others were far more impressed than you were by his performance.

Funny how the intelligence of a majority and the importance of it shifts depending on whom they elect with PARTY people.

There's a LOT of people A LOT more impressed with A LOT of things and people than I am.

Are you impressed with the majority pick we have in the white house now? ROTFLMAO!

 

[Jack Ryan]

Actually, Reagan was out of office long before 50 years. He was first elected 33 years after the Cold War began. I don't know whether or not he foresaw the outright collapse of the Soviet Union, but his opposition and attempts to defeat them were no fluke:

It was a fluke if Reagan could stay awake for an entire interview. He thought he was doing an audition for star wars when he was muttering about evil empires. A few years later and he didn't know if he was talking to his own mother or looking in a mirror.

Presidents blather on about every topic known to man with any potential to scam a vote. Later the winning ones have political party people cherry picking comments from their never ending blithering to suit what ever helps the party for the next batch of treasonous bobble heads. Doesn't matter what party you are talking about.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Funny how the intelligence of a majority and the importance of it shifts depending on whom they elect with PARTY people.

There's a LOT of people A LOT more impressed with A LOT of things and people than I am.

Are you impressed with the majority pick we have in the white house now? ROTFLMAO!

I would suggest, sir, that you investigate the difference between a "majority" in a president's FIRST term and "49/50" in a president's SECOND term. On that account, the current occupant of the White House does not currently have the credentials to hold Mr. Reagan's jock strap.... nor does he show any likelihood of achieving the same.


Did YOU PERSONALLY like him? Sounds like not... Given your general nature around here (and I have never personally met you...) - it sounds like not many Presidents would pass that test. I suspect given your discussions here that Mr. Reagan's decisions with regards to the Air Traffic Controller's Union might not be among your favorite, either... not an attempted threadjack - just an observation.

Just for grins - which, of our past few Presidents would you say has been the best? I lived through it as well - and felt that Reagan was a very worthwhile counterpoint to Carter. Carter, was a well intentioned person who was out of his league... Obama, I fear, is less well intentioned... and still out of his league.

 

[SSGSAD]

I was AD, USMC, and on standby, for 444 days..... I LOVE RR.,
I finally got a good nights sleep, after he raised his right hand, and said, I do solemly swear.... that night, the 5:00 news, reported that the hostages, were on their way to Ramstien AF, base, in Germany...

 

[Duncan]

Nope, it's not "liberal crap". It comes from the von Mises Institute, the least liberal place on the planet. Reagan worshipers just hate hearing that their man-god wasn't all they'd like him to be in their imaginations. None of the things they stated in the article are false.

Daily Pundit Reagan?

Side note : Don't forget that Reagan was anti gun ... the 1986
Firearm Owners’ Protection Act forbid any newly manufactured full auto weapons for sale to the general public .
With this portion of the law he enacted or displayed if you will :
Unconstitutional / Non Constitutional Constructionist ideas .
Anti 2nd Amendment
Anti 4th Amendment
Pro gun control
Anti capitalism - eliminating the supply and demand dynamics of a consumer good - Guns that are full auto fire .

He also supported portions of the Brady Bill

Reagan was not the great savior that he has been made out to be .
No Ron Paul that is for sure .
thanks
Duncan

 

[Phil502]

It's going to be real interesting to see how well one of these Libertarian candidates does if they ever get a chance at a real office. Seems to me they talk a lot of crap about everybody else, thats easy to do when you are responsible for so little.

 

[mrjarrell]

Well, you could go on down and ask Judge Susan Bell in Hagerstown. Doubt she's gonna meet your expectations, tho.