Another experience with my coworkers...

[catielynnb]

I had an interesting experience yesterday with my coworkers and boss while eating sushi. Now, after my last time out with them (see here for story), I've decided to just wait until I get my CCDW (Ky ya'll) before attempting that again.

My boss, has a bit of what I'd call a fear of guns. Fear, irrational most likely, but I promise not to judge him or where his fear comes from.

Towards the end of our lunch somehow the topic of the Martin/Zimmerman debacle came up. I'm not sure how, but I know that until then I wasn't paying much attention, mainly because I was trying to avoid the fish eggs in the sushi. My boss doesn't like to watch, read or hear about the news so when Coworker 1 was done talking about it he asked what happened. Coworker 2 and I jumped in and explained what we knew, not the speculation but the actual facts (I'm so not opening that can of worms here, it's not that important...). Our boss let us finish and Coworker 3 asked about Castle Law... which is what made this whole deal get even more interesting.

I kinda took over at that point, explained Castle Law to him. Coworker 3 asked about getting a CCDW and how that process works. At which point our Boss interjected 'Well, if someone was breaking into my house just to steal from me, I'd let them. I wouldn't want to point a gun at them and kill them.' The four of us got pretty quiet so I asked 'How would you know they're just stealing from you, is your home not that important to you?'
(Conversation, as best I can remember)
'It is, but it's just stuff. A life, even a criminal, is still a human life. I do not want to be responsible for that.'
Me: 'But if they're in your house, they are, essentially, attacking you. That's what Castle Law is for.'
'Still, I would not point a gun at someone even if they were in my house.'
Me: 'What if your daughter was there with you? What would you do then?'
(that was probably a mean statement, but it was to get him to think about his little girl)
'Well, I'd have her call 911 and we'd just hide in a closet or something. Let them steal and leave.'
Me: 'How can you guarantee that they're going to leave once they steal whatever they've come for? And when it counts, the cops are never on time.'
(my other coworkers jumped in, it'll be marked by the color above^^)
'Well, I have two shotguns where I can reach them. I'd be the one scaring them out of my house. My life is more important than letting someone just break in.
'My husband and I both have a plan if someone was to break in the house. Even if one of us isn't home. He's a police officer and he made sure we had a plan.'
'I wonder how (wife's name) would feel about me getting a gun...
'I have a plan, my father and I went over it when he went back to 3rd shift. All his girls are home and we've had problems in our neighborhood before. Even if he didn't have a thought about this, I would. My mother and sister even knows where the guns are in our house and how to operate them...'

It went on for a bit more just rehashing the same things, but one of the last lines he brought up about the whole situation stuck with me.
'Where I grew up, only the bad guys had guns. It wasn't a pretty place.'

I understand that, but I'm not really sure where to go the next time this comes up, because I know it will.
I'm just thankful it was only us five, and not the other two who have given me tons of crap before. They'd have just played off of his fears.


Side note, I've missed you guys. It has been a crazy week... so I've just been lurking.

 

[cobber]

Is your boss American, or did he grow up somewhere else?

There are countries where only the bad guys have guns.

 

[BlueEagle]

It just seems illogical to me. Maybe its because I am a man of action, and if I see a problem, I try to solve it, rather than hide from it.

But if I lived in an area where "only the bad guys had guns," I wouldn't be afraid of guns; I would doing my damndest to get ahold of some, or at least a decent alternative, and preparing myself. Being afraid of them does nothing for you if someone comes after you with one; which is much more likely if the bad guys are the only ones that have them.

Seems to me like another instance of "I don't like them, therefore, they don't exist, I can't hear you, the government will protect me, fingers in ears LALALALALALALALALALALALA!"

 

[catielynnb]

Is your boss American, or did he grow up somewhere else?

There are countries where only the bad guys have guns.

Columbia.

 

[cobber]

Columbia.

His attitude makes more sense to me, then. He's possibly seen more death and killing than most INGOers, and probably viewed moving to the States as a chance to raise a family in peace and quiet.

He probably has no cultural grounding in the notion that citizens are endowed with natural rights to defense of self and the nation. For him, guns may just be symbols of corrupt officials and drug traffickers.

Americans view guns as empowering. Not all people around the world (I'm not talking about other governments or the UN that simply want to disarm and control their populations) would necessarily understand that concept. (If these ideas were more widespread, America wouldn't be such a special place.)

Thanks for the interesting posts!

 

[WebSnyper]

Usually when these types of conversations come up in what I consider mixed company (anti 2 A folks, others, and pro 2 A folks), especially in a work setting, I indicate that sheep are free to be sheep, and I am free not to be a sheep. I don't seek to impose my views. (I will seek to educate if there is blatant misinformation being spread by someone). It is when the sheep try and impose their views, especially by restricting my freedom/rights that it becomes an issue.

 

[hoosierdoc]

His last line is a great admission. He realizes when only bad guys have guns the world sucks. Point out the Monon shooting where people are shot by "thieves" all the time for no reason.

 

[Caleb]

Hmm...you mean those same two idiot who have you grief last time, went with you to lunch?

 

[catielynnb]

Hmm...you mean those same two idiot who have you grief last time, went with you to lunch?

Nay. They were are The Oaks. One of the original three was there... but I also handed him a copy of the law that states I can have my gun in my car per KY law and the company can't do anything about it without legal troubles. He's been quiet over it since then.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Firearms have many purposes. Caity, your conversation covered probably the most obvious. I'm not sure you'd be able to change your boss' mind for the reason cobber outlined above. You might consider attacking this from the fun, sporting angle.

Many gun-people never carry a gun for protection. But they will use them to enjoy various shooting sports. As has been discussed here many times regarding changing a spouses' mind about guns--invite him try his hand at shooting. Maybe once he sees guns dont have to be used to shoot people, he might start to change his mind.

 

[catielynnb]

Firearms have many purposes. Caity, your conversation covered probably the most obvious. I'm not sure you'd be able to change your boss' mind for the reason cobber outlined above. You might consider attacking this from the fun, sporting angle.

Many gun-people never carry a gun for protection. But they will use them to enjoy various shooting sports. As has been discussed here many times regarding changing a spouses' mind about guns--invite him try his hand at shooting. Maybe once he sees guns dont have to be used to shoot people, he might start to change his mind.

I've considered that, but he doesn't seem to really fit into that either. I have tried that approach previously, but it was (pun intended) shot down. I'll have to try again....

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I've considered that, but he doesn't seem to really fit into that either. I have tried that approach previously, but it was (pun intended) shot down. I'll have to try again....

Changing somebody's mind about something is impossible unless they're open to and ready do it. He may not be ready yet. Preaching to him may only make him more intractable.

As a theory: Just be a good ambassador, be cordial, knowlegable, approachable, etc. What little I can tell about you from these, rather anonymous, Internet chats is you'll do fine.

 

[mrortega]

Catie, send him these links of what can happen during a "simple burglary."
St. Pete woman killed in home invasion
Phoenix woman beaten in home invasion dies
Victim's Sister Testifies in Murder Sentencing | NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth

It's good to see you posting again!

 

[Taylorz71]

It sounds like you pushed it without making him defensive and the tone of the others seemed pretty mild. This is always a good thing when discussing such things that people have formed opinions based on non facts. Keep up it up and I hope he comes around.

If he takes the passive approach that is his choice and I really hope there isn't a situation that ends badly for him and his family. I choose to be prepared and everyone I am around knows it. It is weird though because most people in IN don't get as offended when they find out that you hunt with your firearms (except for some vegans) and then the conversations can get pretty good over time.

 

[catielynnb]

It sounds like you pushed it without making him defensive and the tone of the others seemed pretty mild. This is always a good thing when discussing such things that people have formed opinions based on non facts. Keep up it up and I hope he comes around.

I'd love to take him out to Open Range here, I'm sure he'd be up for it... but I can understand the choices due to his past.

It's good to see you posting again!

What can I say, it's been crazy in Derby City. Also, with the risk of terrifying some people I'll have to post some photos from our Bed Races entry over in the Break Room!

 

[mrortega]

I'd love to take him out to Open Range here, I'm sure he'd be up for it... but I can understand the choices due to his past.



What can I say, it's been crazy in Derby City. Also, with the risk of terrifying some people I'll have to post some photos from our Bed Races entry over in the Break Room!

I forgot about the derby. Our bonding agent, who is in Looavull (construction projects with public money require a performance bond) was always "unavailable" that whole week.

Hmm. Can you carry at Churchhill?

 

[BlueEagle]

I personally still like the "insurance" metaphor.

I have a fire extinguisher, although I don't plan on setting my house on fire.

I have a first aid kit, although I don't plan on getting injured.

I have airbags, although I don't plan on wrecking my car.

I have a gun, although I don't plan on needing to use it.

Can't control the world, and you can't control other people; you can only control yourself and react to what happens. Why not be prepared to react in the best way possible?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I personally still like the "insurance" metaphor.

I have a fire extinguisher, although I don't plan on setting my house on fire.

I have a first aid kit, although I don't plan on getting injured.

I have airbags, although I don't plan on wrecking my car.

I have a gun, although I don't plan on needing to use it.

Can't control the world, and you can't control other people; you can only control yourself and react to what happens. Why not be prepared to react in the best way possible?

But Caitie's boss thinks the best way to react is to submissive, or compliant, or reactive-after-the fact.

Maybe a better twist would be along the lines:...if I have a fire in the skillet on my stove, do I go call the fire department and wait patiently outside til they get there?

 

[88GT]

But Caitie's boss thinks the best way to react is to submissive, or compliant, or reactive-after-the fact.

Maybe a better twist would be along the lines:...if I have a fire in the skillet on my stove, do I go call the fire department and wait patiently outside til they get there?

Yeah, the boss's paradigm is world's apart, quite literally, from the American mindset of master of our own fate.

And logic never, ever, EVER trumps emotion except for the rare few. Even for those that can be persuaded by logic alone, many have to be led to the trough before they will drink. So many are incapable of finding it on their own.

 

[WebSnyper]

I've considered that, but he doesn't seem to really fit into that either. I have tried that approach previously, but it was (pun intended) shot down. I'll have to try again....

It sounds like you pushed it without making him defensive and the tone of the others seemed pretty mild. This is always a good thing when discussing such things that people have formed opinions based on non facts. Keep up it up and I hope he comes around.

If he takes the passive approach that is his choice and I really hope there isn't a situation that ends badly for him and his family. I choose to be prepared and everyone I am around knows it. It is weird though because most people in IN don't get as offended when they find out that you hunt with your firearms (except for some vegans) and then the conversations can get pretty good over time.

Eh, you could always look at it this way. If a situation does occur, that would require him to defend himself and he keeps his current mindset, there is likely to be a management position open