Any reason this wouldn't work?

[vernw]

I'm not allowed to send a P.M. yet so please forgive me, but...

Would you mind also posting the 140 gr. load info? I don't have that particular manual...

 

[ctbreitwieser]

I'm not allowed to send a P.M. yet so please forgive me, but...

Would you mind also posting the 140 gr. load info? I don't have that particular manual...

I would but I snapped those pics from the manual in the gun shop we keep open.

 

[vernw]

okay, Thanks

 

[6mm Shoot]

In the Sierra loading manual there isn't a loading for 140 gr bullet. 158 gr is the lowest weight it gives for 358 Winchester. My book don't give any loadings for pistol bullets in the 35 Remington. In fact it only gives one load for the 35 Remington and that is a 200gr rifle bullet.

 

[Broom_jm]

35 Rem FTX Caribou Hunt - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

This guy shot a caribou with the 140gr FTX out of his 35 Remington lever-action. Deer and caribou take about the same amount of killing, so to speak, but I still tend to think this might be pushing the 140gr FTX a little too hard, given that it was intended for 357 Magnum velocities.

There's really only one way to know, I suppose: Do side-by-side expansion tests with this bullet, fired from a 357 Magnum revolver, 357 Magnum rifle, 357 MAX rifle, 35 Remington, 358 Winchester, 35 WSSM, 35 WSM 1.8 and then a 35 Whelen. At some point, that little bullet is going to go to pieces, one would think? I would imagine anything faster than a 35 Remington or MAX would result in poor terminal performance, ie, the bullet just blows up on contact. Great for varmints, though!

 

[Lee S. Forsberg]

So I've been contemplating reaming my .357 handi rifle to .358 Hoosier. While looking at the two, I got an idea. And made this...


It's a .358 Hoosier case loaded with a Hornady 158gr .357 XTP. I seated it so the base of the bullet is the same depth as my 180gr SSPS.

Now I am a novice reloader, but in my head. This would work just fine, and allow me to load a hotter charge and really make that bullet zing through the air.

Some questions I have are, if this will work...

Can I seat the bullet deeper and still be safe?

Can I bump up the powder charge and stay safe?

Can I do both simultaneously?

What type of accuracy might be expected from a 1:14 twist barrel?

I haven't read every post in this thread. But I do have some reloading experience . I don't see why this couldn't be done. Maybe a good place to start would be 358 Herrett data using cast bullets to start. And if you haven't done so already slug your bore.

 

[ctbreitwieser]

I have shot 357 bullets out of a 358 Winchester. The loads for such bullets are listed in the Sierra loading book. Now they are not pushed as fast as a rifle bullet. In the 358 Winchester I push a 357 bullet , 158 gr to 2000 FPS. That produces 1400 FP of energy. A 358 rifle bullet at 200gr is pushed at 2400 FPS and produces 2550 FP of energy. Why would you want to use a 357 bullet and get half the needed effect.

With a full out 180gr 357 bullet pushed at a max load you get only 2200 FPS and 1700 FP of energy.

Now I know you are working up loads for a 358 Hoosier. The thing of it is that the 358 Hoosier can produce about the same results as the 358 Winchester. Most of the loads I have worked up for the 358 Hoosier I started with 358 Winchester starting loads and worked them up slowly and keeping a check on signs of pressure.

Now if you want to go with lower weight bullets then cast some hard lead ones in the size you need and push them with gas checks. You still will not get to rifle bullet speeds but you can get close.

According to the books you will not get the results you are looking for out of pistol bullets.

Good luck with your reloading and I hope you heed the information you have been given.

6mm Shoot, when youre working up Hoosier loads with .358win data, what COAL are you using? Do you use the same COAL listed for the Win?

 

[SSGSAD]

In the Sierra loading manual there isn't a loading for 140 gr bullet. 158 gr is the lowest weight it gives for 358 Winchester. My book don't give any loadings for pistol bullets in the 35 Remington. In fact it only gives one load for the 35 Remington and that is a 200gr rifle bullet.

I have a Speer #11, and it says ..... IMR 4895 37.0 @ 2011 fps., to 41.0 @ 2255 fps.
RE7 36.0 @2247 fps., to 40.0 @ 2539 fps.
680 26.0 @2007 fps. to 30.0 @ 2334 fps. says to use a Mag., Primer, so a slow powder .....

I assume NO LIABILITY, for the use of this info .....

Just trying to help .....

Use at your own risk .....

 

[vernw]

That is the kind of starting load info I was after for a 140 gr in a 35x325WSM 1.8" round in a Rem 700. I'm not worried about the 140 FTX performance, I'll be trying out the Lehigh 140 gr. Penetrator that's a copper solid rated for up to 4000fps that destroys tissue like a HP. Doubt I'll get much chance to mess with it before this years season tho....

 

[6mm Shoot]

ctbreitwieser I use all the information in the books. Example, over all case is listed for 358 Winchester at 2.005 trimmed. Take .2" off of that and you have a 1.805 case. The COL is given at 2.78" for the 358 Winchesster. Take .2 off of that and you have 2.58" for the Hoosier. Now if you are using short pistol bullets then you are not going to get 2.58". You just have to work with what you get depending on the bullet you use. That is how I do it. So far so good.

The rifle bullets have been more accurate than the pistol bullets in the 358 Winchester. I had better luck with hard cast lead bullets than I did with pistol bullets. They are fun to play with but I would not use them for hunting. Not with all the good hunting bullets we have around.

 

[Broom_jm]

ctbreitwieser I use all the information in the books. Example, over all case is listed for 358 Winchester at 2.005 trimmed. Take .2" off of that and you have a 1.805 case. The COL is given at 2.78" for the 358 Winchesster. Take .2 off of that and you have 2.58" for the Hoosier. Now if you are using short pistol bullets then you are not going to get 2.58". You just have to work with what you get depending on the bullet you use. That is how I do it. So far so good.

The rifle bullets have been more accurate than the pistol bullets in the 358 Winchester. I had better luck with hard cast lead bullets than I did with pistol bullets. They are fun to play with but I would not use them for hunting. Not with all the good hunting bullets we have around.

Are you adjusting your powder charge or the burn rate used, given the reduction in volume you are creating by seating .200" deeper into the case?

 

[vernw]

35 Rem FTX Caribou Hunt - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

This guy shot a caribou with the 140gr FTX out of his 35 Remington lever-action. Deer and caribou take about the same amount of killing, so to speak, but I still tend to think this might be pushing the 140gr FTX a little too hard, given that it was intended for 357 Magnum velocities.

There's really only one way to know, I suppose: Do side-by-side expansion tests with this bullet, fired from a 357 Magnum revolver, 357 Magnum rifle, 357 MAX rifle, 35 Remington, 358 Winchester, 35 WSSM, 35 WSM 1.8 and then a 35 Whelen. At some point, that little bullet is going to go to pieces, one would think? I would imagine anything faster than a 35 Remington or MAX would result in poor terminal performance, ie, the bullet just blows up on contact. Great for varmints, though!

Jason - based on the tests our friend David White did with ballistic gelatin and my personal experience on a smaller doe at 95 yards, it does indeed look like the 140 FTX is topping out with the 357 Max at rifle velocities. I had it nearly take the off shoulder off the doe when it clipped the bottom of that shoulder and completely disintegrated.

 

[6mm Shoot]

Broom_jm as I posted earlier that I have used starter loads for the 358 Winchester for the Hoosier. Then I work them up till I get what I want. Keeping a check on pressure. I started with IMR 4895 and couldn't get the FPS I wanted and switched to IMR 4198. With a 36 gr charge I am getting an average of 2450 FPS using a 200 gr bullet. With a 36.5 gr charge of IMR 4198 I got 2470 for an average with a 200gr bullet. That load is starting to show flattened primers. So I am sticking with the 36 gr load. It has proved very accurate as well as deadly on deer.

It is my understanding that some people are getting good results with 10X. They are claiming they can get 2600 FPS. That would make it close to what the 350 Remington Magnum gets with a max load. Sounds risky to me. I am happy with what I am getting. If I was hunting one of the big bears I might try to push the Hoosier, but chances are I would go with a new rifle with a bigger round.

On a other note. I posted some time back that the 444 Marlin got 3000 FPS. Well that was what I remembered I was told. That was not what I was told. I went back and questioned the guy and he laughed and said that he had said no such thing. He had said that it gets close to 3000 FP of energy. So I stand corrected. I was wrong. Before I posted I should have checked the books.

 

[Broom_jm]

Broom_jm as I posted earlier that I have used starter loads for the 358 Winchester for the Hoosier. Then I work them up till I get what I want. Keeping a check on pressure. I started with IMR 4895 and couldn't get the FPS I wanted and switched to IMR 4198. With a 36 gr charge I am getting an average of 2450 FPS using a 200 gr bullet. With a 36.5 gr charge of IMR 4198 I got 2470 for an average with a 200gr bullet. That load is starting to show flattened primers. So I am sticking with the 36 gr load. It has proved very accurate as well as deadly on deer.

It is my understanding that some people are getting good results with 10X. They are claiming they can get 2600 FPS. That would make it close to what the 350 Remington Magnum gets with a max load. Sounds risky to me. I am happy with what I am getting. If I was hunting one of the big bears I might try to push the Hoosier, but chances are I would go with a new rifle with a bigger round.

On a other note. I posted some time back that the 444 Marlin got 3000 FPS. Well that was what I remembered I was told. That was not what I was told. I went back and questioned the guy and he laughed and said that he had said no such thing. He had said that it gets close to 3000 FP of energy. So I stand corrected. I was wrong. Before I posted I should have checked the books.

6mm Shoot,

It is not surprising that you would need a little faster-burning powder with the 358 Hoosier. You have less volume to work with, so you'll need to use a faster powder to build pressure sooner, with the caveat that you will not be able to build the same total volume of gas that you could with a slower powder. (This is more notable with heavier-for-caliber bullets.)

You went from a medium burn rate rifle powder to one of the fastest rifle powders on the market. RL10X, RL7 and H332 are powders in-between those two extremes that will probably give better fill rate and higher velocity, but if what you're getting with 4198 works...stick with it!

 

[ctbreitwieser]

My biggest concern with these loads are finding a safe COAL. If I load them at the 35rem listed length, there is very little bullet in the neck. I am still thinking I would be safest trying to seat the base of the bullet at the same depth as my 180gr SSPs. There will be a little bit of jump to the lands, but it shouldn't be much more than my regular loads.

Unfortunately I've been working so much that I haven't time to work on these yet. But I'm really enjoying this conversation, so let's keep it going!