GlockWielder
Plinker
- Aug 10, 2012
- 41
- 8
[FONT="]AR15 vs. AK47 [/FONT]
[FONT="] Tactical solutions and upgrades that are must have for superior comfort and operation.[/FONT]
[FONT="]GlockWielder[/FONT]
[FONT="]9/11/12[/FONT]
[FONT="] Also, I’m not going to do any history lessons in this because I’m not exactly qualified to do that. There are sources out there that give great information if you are interested in that. I am more interested in sharing my personal experience with the actual application of the two firearms previously mentioned. [/FONT]
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Keep in mind that this is my experience and you can take it for what it’s worth. You may have a very different perspective. If you do, just leave a reply. I really want to hear what people have to say.[/FONT]
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It was a cold day in South Eastern Indiana when I got into my red Honda Civic to drive into town to pick up my very first assault rifle. I had been accumulating up money while doing research on the internet to pick out just what I wanted. First up on my list was something that was going to work in adverse conditions. I heard everyone talk about how the AK47 was dead reliable no matter what. As a new sport shooter/tactical shooter, I really bought into that. AR15’s were good if you kept them lubed up but you could run an AK dry with no issues. That’s what I was told anyway. Further testing showed that the AR-15 platform runs dry as it does wet. Go figure. [/FONT]
[FONT="] When I got back home, I was the proud owner of my very first AK-47. I was a big shot now! It was a WASR-10 made in Romania. Some people complain about the magazines wobbling but it’s not a big deal. If you get Tapco ones they won’t wobble at all. When I got home I couldn’t resist loading up a magazine. I threw on my winter jacket and turned on the back porch light since it was well past dark. If you haven’t tried night shooting, you are missing out. As I inserted the magazine after a few pitiful attempts (Tapco!) and manipulated the action, my initial thoughts were, “oh, baby.” The muzzle flash went off as a burst of fire 3 to 4 feet out of the gun erupted. I set out some 2 liters and they went flying as I picked them off one by one. It wasn’t long before my first magazine went dry and you can bet I was hooked! I hope I didn’t wake the neighbors… They’re probably used to my night shooting by now though. [/FONT]
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Ever since that first day shooting outside in the winter snow at night I’ve had a great respect for the AK and its outstanding design as a firearm. My WASR-10 had wood furniture which I wasn’t very fond of. Some of the AKs you see have some very cool wood but I am more of a fan of all black ones. It wasn’t long after this that I found myself at Wal-Mart gloating over the pornography in the gun magazine section. All you had to do was open up a magazine to see your favorite gun laying out in its full glory! At that time in my life I was very preoccupied in the groupthink that AR-15s are not as good as an AK. However, as time went by and I talked with more people in law enforcement and military, I finally purchased an AR-15. The data that I have found has led me to believe that the AK has some serious competition worth mentioning. Let me introduce you to the AR-15. [/FONT]
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The AR-15 is the most popular rifle in America.
[FONT="]Have you ever found a holster design not made for a Glock? They are far and few in-between. The AR-15 is the same way. Since it is so popular, you can find aftermarket parts and accessories almost anywhere. The AK-47 has accessories available to it but they are not found as easily. That’s just my experience. If you are going to spend your hard earned cash on a rifle, wouldn’t you want to easily customize it to fit your body size and preference? The AR-15 has many different high quality manufacturers that make accessories at a very decent price. Magpul, UTG, KZ, Blackhawk, and Troy Industries are some excellent options available to you. Personally, I like the look of Magpul gear so that is generally what my carbine wears. If you want to buy accessories for an AK-47, good luck! I do recommend Tapco though. The AR-15 wins in the accessories market. The AR-15 is like Lego’s for grownups! [/FONT]
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A very important aspect to the purchase of a firearm is the availability of ammo and the cost of it. In my personal experience it is foolish to buy a .40 S&W handgun compared to a 9mm. Likewise it is foolish to buy a .357 Sig compared to a .40 S&W. The cost to performance ratio just doesn’t do justice when comparing the prices in-between ammo. It is generally $4 to $5 dollars more a box of ammo when comparing .40 S&W to 9mm. Those are the prices around my area so yours may be different. That is a big difference when you purchase any amount of ammo besides one or two boxes. If you are like me and you shoot every week to improve skills, $4 or $5 adds up very quick. My point is that you need to have affordable ammo.[/FONT]
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While .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO is not the most affordable ammunition available, it is more affordable than paying for .308 WIN or 6.8 SPC. If you are going to get an AR, do yourself and your wallet a favor; get it in the 5.56 NATO. What I’ve found when I’ve shopped around for AK and AR ammunition is this; they’re about the same price! It’s hard to find any ammo that is brass in 7.62 x 39mm but that isn’t a big deal. You can pick up Golden Bear ammunition that is steel cased brass plated ammo (not to badly priced either) if you are paranoid about steel. I say get a pair of balls and shoot steel. Your internal parts on any gun are heat treated and are very hard. Much harder than the steel in steel cased bullets I bet. Availability of the ammo is a draw. Around where I am from it is relatively easy to buy both calibers. Across the board that is probably the same nationwide. Both rifles are very popular and there is a demand for both calibers. Besides the prices of the ammo being about the same (only in steel ammo of course), the actual ballistics of the two chambering are very different. I’m not a scientist nor have I conducted any studies that I can source to show you what I’ve discovered, however, what I have found on the internet seems to hold truth. I have watched some different documentaries on both weapon systems and the idea behind both bullets. In my forensics class I had the opportunity to see the heart that was taken out of a person who was shot with a .223 bullet from a sniper while driving his motorcycle in Indianapolis on the highway. The idea behind the .223 or 5.56 is to have a small entrance wound and a massive exit wound when you compare the two. The .223 enters at such a high speed that it yawns ( I think that is the right term) inside the body. This means that when it impacts, your blood and tissue have a shockwave in the direction the bullet is traveling. The bullet does much more damage than expected when you understand what happens upon impact and exit. What about that heart that I inspected in my forensics class? Make a fist with one of your hands. Look at your fingers and imagine a .22 size hole in-between the palm of your hand and your middle and ring fingers. Now look at the back of your hand and imagine the whole back of your hand being torn out. That is what the 5.56 does in an ideal situation and that is what I observed in my class. The 7.62 x 39mm has more of a clean wound through and through. It will most likely travel directly through you without causing as much damage as the 5.56. Since it is heavier and traveling slower that is what happens. From my understanding it has more kinetic energy when hitting it’s target (not always a good thing!). If you do not agree with what I just stated or have some insight and corrections to what I just put in my paragraph, please share! If you think that the 7.62 x 39 is still a better performing cartridge in combat, ask yourself why the Russians were envious of the 5.56 and it’s capabilities and why they designed the AK-74 and it’s chambering to replace the 47. It’s just common sense.[/FONT]
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Since we are talking about bullets it is time to talk about recoil. To fully understand how recoil works and what causes recoil, I’ll have to do some history for the newbies and the people who think they understand how guns work. Perceived recoil is found from the equation of F = MV(squared). Let us, for the sake of argument, compare identical guns. Gun (A) is firing a bullet of 34 grains and gun (B) is firing a bullet that is 56 grains. Both cartridges are loaded to the same exact specifications except for the bullet weight. Both guns are completely identical in all specifications. Gun (B) will experience more recoil because the mass of the object it is firing will produce more force to the hand. This would be the case in a Browning style handgun with a tilting barrel design (Glock and M&P for example). However, there is much more to the argument when you throw an AR-15 into the equation. The AR-15 runs from a gas impingement system and not one that is driven from the recoil of the gun. What this means is that it taps off the gas from the previous round to move the action of the gun to load another round. I do not want to go into much detail on this because it would take up a lot of time. If you are curious to find out more about it search Google (you’ll find a lot). In theory, you do not feel as much recoil because the AR15’s buffer system soaks up the vast majority of it. Obviously since the AR-15 is so customizable, the weight of each one will differ. Since mine has a quad rail and tactical weapon-light, I gain about a pound from the stock weight it was when I originally purchased it. That is not counting the weight after I load it up with a full magazine. Is the weight a bad thing with the AR-15 platform? As a U.S. Army Lieutenant told me, “Weight is not always a good thing in a weapon system, however, (the M4) platform is the only weapon system I have used that benefits from having the weight from a quad rail. Having a 7 pound weapon system fully loaded is completely manageable.” I’ve shot identical guns in every way except one had a quad-rail and the other had the stock cheapo one that comes on it. When I tested my theory, I could shoot 3 rounds with the AR-15 that has a quad-rail in the same time it took me to shoot 2 rounds with the same gun without the extra weight provided from the rails. It wasn’t just me, I tried another shooter at the range without telling him my results. His reply was, “Yours seems to be shooting softer than his but his seems lighter”. 80% of victims of one gunshot wound survive regardless of the caliber used. 90% of victims with multiple gun shots die regardless of caliber. The double and triple taps are invaluable in a gunfight. I’ll take the extra pound of weight if it means I can shoot faster while retaining accuracy and precision. When comparing the weight of a WASR-10 with Tapco furniture and a Bushnell red dot sight, my AR-15 felt lighter. My first thought was the F=MV(squared) equation. However, during my initial thoughts I was not thinking about how the AK-47 is gas operated and uses a piston. The piston inside the AK-47 adds some significant weight to the weapon. You have about a pound of weight that is on the top of the weapon and that weight is close to the end of the weapon away from your body. When you fire an AK-47, you have the mass of that piston moving back in forth which creates movement which draws you off target. Do not get me wrong! I love shooting the AK. It is a total riot. Since an AR-15 that runs from a gas impingement system lacks the weight of the piston moving back in forth when fired, you will move off target less. If you do not believe me, watch videos on Youtube where people compare recoil from the two systems. Better yet, if you have both weapons or can shoot both weapons side by side, you will notice what I’m talking about. Of course there are AR-15’s that run off a piston system too and I assume the concept applies equally if you compare that system to the AK-47. If you have a piston system AR, shed some light on it for me! Good homework to backup what I am claiming can be found on Youtube in the video put out by Surefire where they test their high capacity magazines in fully automatic fire. If you want to see an AK recoil in fully automatic fire, check out Gunny’s video he put out comparing the two systems. [/FONT]
[FONT="]How about the sights on both weapons? The AK-47 has better sights. It may just be how I perceive the sights and what I like but I find it very difficult to shoot effectively with my AR-15. I can hit almost anything with a WASR-10 AK47 with the stock sights that came with it. Your mileage may vary a lot in this topic. I think it takes some training and proficiency to hit anything with the iron sights on any AR-15. In my experience the sights on an AR-15 are designed to be fast and to hit a body sized target under pressure and stress. I just aim in the general area I want to hit and I have fairly good results. I feel more accurate when I shoot an AK though.[/FONT]
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As for accuracy between the two systems I am not going to comment. There are far to many variations in the two systems for me to give a valid data point on that. Suffice it to say that my WASR-10 that was Romanian worked just fine and I hit exactly where I wanted to hit. [/FONT]
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Ergonomics on your weapon system is something that can either get you killed or can save your life. The AK-47 suffers in ergonomics very badly. If you are using a system that takes you over 2 ½ seconds to reload, you better be refining something, practicing more, or looking into a different system. My major complaint and problem was that I could not successfully reload an AK-47 within that time period no matter how I tried. Yep, I even tried the Russian Spetsnaz technique of reloading. However, that is difficult to apply in real life situations. I messed up my reloads with that system more than I accomplished a successful reload. In contrast, the AR-15 allows for very easy reloading. The magazine release is located conveniently at your index finger of a right handed shooter. All you do is press, move your thumb from the 12 o’clock position to the 3 o’clock position, load a new magazine, then release the bolt where your thumb naturally sits. Products can be purchased that allow you to close the bolt with your shooting hand (Highly recommended, however, I still don’t have one outfitted on my gun). Even if you run your bolt release (ping pong paddle style!) stock the way it came from the factory like the majority of users, there are ways to easily do it either one handed or with both hands in operation once you train properly. How about loading the very first round into the chamber? My experience has led me to this conclusion in reloading or loading for the first time. Put your slide/bolt into the rear position where it is held open, insert your loaded magazine, push the slide release/bolt release and let the weapon load itself. This eliminates any user error of reloading. Get into the habit of this! You do not want to “walk your action down” and have your firearm not load properly in a situation where you need to have your attention not on fixing a problem in your gun but eliminating the threats to your life. I cannot stress this enough! The AK-47 does not have a bolt that stays back after the last round is fired. Imagine being in a firefight and suddenly hearing your gun go “click!” You set there for about 1 ½ seconds as your mind races through what could have happened. Is it a dud, light primer hit, bad primer, jam, stovepipe, or maybe a magazine failure? All the while there are still active threats to your life. Welcome to the paradise of the AK-47! The AR-15 in contrast has a bolt that stays open after the last round is fired. When you get used to shooting an AR-15 you can feel when your bolt stays open when shooting. The loudest sound a gun can make is a “click” when it’s supposed to go “bang” and a “bang” when it’s supposed to go “click”. When you finally open your action or remove your magazine to diagnose your problem, you are already out 4 to 5 seconds in your gun fight. Then you have to rock a new magazine in, grab the action of your AK with either your right hand (which makes you take your hand off the pistol grip and you lose your effective hold on the weapon) or cross your left hand under the weapon and load it that way. The entire time you do this you have to hope that you got a good aggressive hold on the action to make sure you didn’t “walk down the action” making your gun have to be fixed back to working order. “When all else fails, bang on it till it works!” – Clint Smith. You decide which system you’d like to use. How about the safety of each weapon? There are tons of Sally’s out there so this is a topic of huge discussion. The AR-15 allows you to engage your safety with your thumb very easily. You get a positive on and off click when you manipulate it. You know if it’s on SAFE or FIRE. The AK-47 has a safety that, while affective, it does not allow for rapid engagement and disengagement like the AR-15 does. Most people probably would forget or disregard the AK-47 safety in combat or a stressful situation. In a gunfight you want everything to be simple. Look at Glocks for example; you draw and you shoot. If I was running an AK, I would not be using the safety at all. What about lefties!? You are not forgotten in the world of guns! Ask your gun dealer what handgun he sells primarily to left handed users. I guarantee you it will be a S&W M&P. That is the only polymer framed pistol that can be made completely left handed. The magazine release, safety, and the slide release are all completely ambidextrous. Wonder why the rifles of the future (SCAR, ACR, Beretta ARX-160) keep coming out completely ambidextrous? There are left handed shooters! The AR-15 also has aftermarket parts that make it so you can access the magazine release, safety, and bolt release while being left handed. Even if you run an AR-15 stock you can use the safety with your index finger. The next time you see a left handed person struggling with the safety of an AK, give ‘em a salute for me! [/FONT]
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How about the average price for both weapon systems? Obviously both systems will need some tweaking to get them to your personal liking. Both systems will be variable in price when you factor in the price of accessories. If you want to buy a new rifle that is an AK-47 that is quality made, you are pretty much stuck with Arsenal. While they are priced affordably, they are not inexpensive. You can buy a WASR-10 like I did (which was a refurbished rifle made from new and used parts) or you can buy a new one with a factory warranty. You don’t need to spend $2000 on a Daniel Defense to get a rifle that performs in the marriage bed. Taking all this to account and the fact that you can get an AR-15 with a factory warranty at a very affordable price, the argument for the AK-47 becomes weak. If you are buying (marrying) it, why not get something that is virginal and will let you break it in the way you want at your own pace. I don’t know, maybe you are one of those guys that likes the guns with some experience
I like my things quite virginal if possible! The worst thing you could do is get your new love in the marriage bed and realize that she’s already been lubed, oiled and worked over by someone else.[/FONT][FONT="]
Wow, I’m 10 pages into this and I haven’t stopped writing since I started. That’s the end of this! I hope you enjoyed.[/FONT]
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Oooh boy.
