Argument with the girlfriend

[abrumlev]

I was having this debate/heated argument with my girlfriend. Forgive her, she's from north shore Chicago down here in People's republic of bloomington for school.

Her main points were:
-All shootings boil down to emotions. It is safer to assume everyone is incapable of handling their emotions than to assume people are morally responsible. (For example, finding their spouse cheating and becoming so angry to pull their gun)

-Don't go to bad areas and you'll avoid crime altogether. Granted she is from a well to do area of Chicago where there is very little crime, still Chicago as its own is a very dangerous city. She said that she has been in bad areas and nothing has happened.

-She is okay with guns in the home as defense but to carry them in public is irresponsible and she doesn't feel safe with people carrying.

My basic defenses are if you can defend yourself and family at home, what stops you from being capable of defending yourself in public. Also, there is a moral "code" when carrying that 98% of people follow; with regards to responsibility to themselves and the public.

I tried finding statistics pertaining to gun owners/carriers who are the involved in crimes or who pull their weapon with intent to harm, but couldn't find any.

Is there any decent data or good websites regarding gun crime in Indiana in particular?


This is one of the main reasons I'd have a hard time moving to Chicago if we got married...

Silly girls!

 

[BarryJaxon]

Let a Mother ****er kick her door,or haras her on the street,tell her to think about Lauren,bet 1 of those would change her mind,it`s unfortunately been ingrained in her for "home"

 

[Boiled Owl]

350,000,000 people in this country. 52%? female. Can you change her? Maybe.
I'm going on 20 years of marriage and there are aspects that we just can't see eye to eye on. Fortunately guns and self defense isn't one of them. When we met, she voted democrat! Now she helped me canvass for Ron Paul, sometimes their thinking will come around.

PS: Do not move to ILLinois!

 

[Bunnykid68]

Law abiding citizens defending themselves with guns do not make big headlines. NRA's magazines has an armed citizens page every month that tells the stories of people defending themselves with guns.

 

[abrumlev]

Yeah that's very true AJG. I'll maybe email her a couple of those.

Barry - It's not that she's completely against self defense. She believes that the mace she carries in her purse is a decent attempt at it. I agree it's better than nothing but the female mentality here in Boo-mington is that the school/City is responsible for being proactive for their safety, not the individual.

Keep the data comin'!

 

[patience0830]

WOW

As a single man again for the first time in 24 yrs, I'd have to say that is a deal breaker on the relationship if logic can't change her mind pretty quickly.
"A woman for gun control is like a chicken rooting for Colonel Sanders" To borrow a quote from a gal here. A wise gal.

Life's too short to fight that for very long.

 

[Amishman44]

Honestly, it's tough to change someone's engrained thinking, unless the terrible happens...and you hope they survive with minimal damage / scarring!

I would suggest taking her out and letting her enjoy the fun of shooting...learning as much as she can about the gun...and see where it takes her!

Trying to 'force' change on her...will only deepen her roots of belief...(whether true or not...or right or wrong, no one likes to be told they are 'wrong')...most people will lead themselves to the truth...if given the right set of circumstances / situation!

If the front door is blocked...quietly go in through the side or back door!

Just my !! Good luck...

 

[sgreen3]

Unfortunatly, most of the time it takes a serious event to completly change they way someone thinks. Maybe try an get her to talk to another woman who carries an have her explain as to why she does it. maybe that would help, good luck

 

[gunowner930]

I was having this debate/heated argument with my girlfriend. Forgive her, she's from north shore Chicago down here in People's republic of bloomington for school.

Her main points were:
-All shootings boil down to emotions. It is safer to assume everyone is incapable of handling their emotions than to assume people are morally responsible. (For example, finding their spouse cheating and becoming so angry to pull their gun)

^BS. Career criminals, gang on gang violence, random violence, rapists, assassinations, serial killers, etc.

-Don't go to bad areas and you'll avoid crime altogether. Granted she is from a well to do area of Chicago where there is very little crime, still Chicago as its own is a very dangerous city. She said that she has been in bad areas and nothing has happened.

BS again. people become victims outside of "bad areas." If i drive through bad areas in Indy, chances are nothing will happen, however the odds of something happening kinda go up a bit. Just because she never saw a threat in the bad areas that she visited does not mean that threat never existed.

-She is okay with guns in the home as defense but to carry them in public is irresponsible and she doesn't feel safe with people carrying.

What is the difference?

My basic defenses are if you can defend yourself and family at home, what stops you from being capable of defending yourself in public. Also, there is a moral "code" when carrying that 98% of people follow; with regards to responsibility to themselves and the public.

I tried finding statistics pertaining to gun owners/carriers who are the involved in crimes or who pull their weapon with intent to harm, but couldn't find any.

It's miniscule.

Is there any decent data or good websites regarding gun crime in Indiana in particular?

I think the NRA keeps statistics on Defensive Gun Use

This is one of the main reasons I'd have a hard time moving to Chicago if we got married...

The are many reasons not to move to Chicago. Simply put, the place is a cesspool. High taxes, sctrict gun control, high crime, and they have the most corrupt local politicians in the country.

You can argue with your girlfriend all you want, you won't change her mind until you show her firsthand. Take her to the range and let her shoot any type of firearm she wants. Start carrying (if your licensed) everytime you go somewhere with her, after awhile she will see that guns in public are nothing more than tools in public, they don't magically fire on their own, they don't change your personality, and they don't make you want to shoot someone over a minor disagreement. Good luck, and convert another 2A supporter.
Silly girls!

Responses in red

 

[pudly]

A great site with all kinds of gun facts/statistics.

Gun Facts - Gun Control | Facts | Debunk | Myths

Excellent for supplying info for logical arguments. That said, logic will not change her mind. Feel free to share some of the stats, but I think the "take her to the range" suggestion is probably the best way to turn her if you want to try it.

 

[cordex]

-All shootings boil down to emotions. It is safer to assume everyone is incapable of handling their emotions than to assume people are morally responsible. (For example, finding their spouse cheating and becoming so angry to pull their gun)

Is she worried about getting shot in that particular situation, or something? Seriously though, this sounds like serious projection. She can't control her emotions and would pull a gun in inappropriate circumstances so of course everyone else would too.
Further, if we assume that no one is capable of handling their emotions getting rid of guns is barely even a start.

-Don't go to bad areas and you'll avoid crime altogether.

Bull crap. While it is true that you can go a long way towards avoiding crime by avoiding bad areas - and I do just that even when I'm carrying a gun - crime doesn't just happen in "bad areas". I've got personal experience with that.

I tried finding statistics pertaining to gun owners/carriers who are the involved in crimes or who pull their weapon with intent to harm, but couldn't find any.

Will statistics convince her at all? Is her position based on logic and reason? There are plenty of statistics out there, but the crux of the issue is that she's afraid, and that fear won't go away if you show her a spreadsheet that proves your point.

This is one of the main reasons I'd have a hard time moving to Chicago if we got married...

I don't see you changing her mind on this any time soon. If you pursue this relationship, expect this to be a constant sore spot until you sell all your guns and move to Chicago.

 

[BarryJaxon]

Yup...

As a single man again for the first time in 24 yrs, I'd have to say that is a deal breaker on the relationship if logic can't change her mind pretty quickly.
"A woman for gun control is like a chicken rooting for Colonel Sanders" To borrow a quote from a gal here. A wise gal.

My last wife told me it was her or the guns,I asker her"when ya packin"
She didn`t see the humor!Oh well...

 

[dieselman]

im blessed with a girlfriend who is 100% pro gun... found her at IU too...

 

[BarryJaxon]

Yeah that's very true AJG. I'll maybe email her a couple of those.

Barry - It's not that she's completely against self defense. She believes that the mace she carries in her purse is a decent attempt at it. I agree it's better than nothing but the female mentality here in Boo-mington is that the school/City is responsible for being proactive for their safety, not the individual.

Keep the data comin'!

Dude I used to work DOC,some of those guys it didn`t bother abit,had some tell me it cleares their sinuses real well,then ya gotta take a tear gas cannister & shoot`em in the melon,that get`s their attention,just sayin it`s a rough ole world out there

 

[bingley]

I was having this debate/heated argument with my girlfriend.

It doesn't matter what you are arguing about. She is always right, and you are always wrong. The sooner you recognize this, the sooner this will be over.

Now, that doesn't mean you can't keep doing what you believe is right...

Da Bing

 

[STEEL CORE]

Just don't shoot her, if you do she wins the argument.

 

[Hotdoger]

Typical Chicago burb inhabitant. They love the city but live in the burbs and can't admit their liberal ideas are what makes the city horrendous. They are what is wrong with Il.

 

[SEIndSAM]

As a single man again for the first time in 24 yrs, I'd have to say that is a deal breaker on the relationship if logic can't change her mind pretty quickly.
"A woman for gun control is like a chicken rooting for Colonel Sanders" To borrow a quote from a gal here. A wise gal.

Life's too short to fight that for very long.

Hang in there 08030. I was in the same place. I left a 23 year marriage and not only found the most beautiful girl in the world to marry, but she loves guns! She got ME back into the hobby. They are out there, you just have to look for them.

 

[jmiller676]

Honestly, it's tough to change someone's engrained thinking, unless the terrible happens...and you hope they survive with minimal damage / scarring!

I would suggest taking her out and letting her enjoy the fun of shooting...learning as much as she can about the gun...and see where it takes her!

Trying to 'force' change on her...will only deepen her roots of belief...(whether true or not...or right or wrong, no one likes to be told they are 'wrong')...most people will lead themselves to the truth...if given the right set of circumstances / situation!

If the front door is blocked...quietly go in through the side or back door!

Just my !! Good luck...

Huge +1. My Gf when we first started dating was against guns (her moms side of the family is anti) I went to the range, asked her if she wanted to shoot the .22 and she loved it. Asked her to shoot my 9mm and she flipped the **** out! Something with handguns people don't like. We'll a month later I went and shot again and she tagged along like usual and asked to shoot the 9mm again ans she started to like it. I always was telling her the reasons for carrying a gun and what I am willing to do at all costs to defend her life. Now, she has NO problems with guns shoots with me and doesn't fall into the BS she hears from her family about guns and that ****.

 

[edporch]

I was having this debate/heated argument with my girlfriend. Forgive her, she's from north shore Chicago down here in People's republic of bloomington for school.

-Snip-

This is one of the main reasons I'd have a hard time moving to Chicago if we got married...

Silly girls!

I wouldn't live in Chicago, or even Illinois on a bet!

Your girlfriend sounds to me like a lot of the idealistic fellow students I came across when I went to IU Bloomington.
You know, the "your facts may be right, but I FEEL you are wrong..." type.

Don't be surprised that whatever facts you show her will have no effect.

Good luck.