Arming someone else in a gunfight...legal problems for that person without LTCH?

[rbMPSH12]

I don't carry a backup gun, but I understand that one of the reasons to carry a BUG is that you can arm another person in a gunfight. Clearly this would be advantageous for you . However, are there legal problems for that person if they don't have a LTCH? Let's say you are with your buddy, who doesn't have a LTCH. If you give him your BUG, could he get in trouble for carrying without a license, or are there protections for that sort of thing? Another scenario would be someone who doesn't have a LTCH and somehow gets the BG's gun and kills him with it. It seems to me that there is likely a law protecting people in those cases. Anyone know for sure?

 

[mrjarrell]

There is no law I know of that would protect another person from the possibility of getting jacked up in those circumstances. That said, I'd have a hard time seeing a jury rule against someone defending another in a case like that. Also, that's not why folks carry a BUG. It's to back up YOUR gun should you run out of ammo or have a malfunction, not to arm someone else. Hard to even know if that other person knows the first thing about a firearm. BUGs are for yourself, not to give away.

 

[rbMPSH12]

Clearly the primary function is to back up YOUR gun. But there was a vid posted recently with Reid Hendrichs from Tactical Response talking about BUGs and he said something about arming someone else. So it got me thinking about the legal ramifications. I understand why people advocate carrying a BUG, but I just choose not to. I tried wearing two guns tonight (M&P9 FS on the hip and Shield appendix) with a spare mag for each (Shield mag appendix and FS mag left hip OWB). Very uncomfortable! I couldn't do that everyday. Maybe if I had a snubby for pocket or ankle carry or something. But I couldn't do two guns around the waist. A student in the Tac Resp video was carrying two G19s appendix. I'm sorry, but that's a bit much and seems unsustainable for EDC. But to each his own!

 

[ATM]

If a person is in a situation where they actually needed to use a gun, I doubt the thought of the possible misdemeanor charge of carrying without a license would impact their choice to use one.

 

[David D]

I do consider a BUG to be primarily to back up my primary weapon, but I could envision a situation where I would hand my BUG to my wife or someone else that I know could properly use it to increase my odds of success.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I'm with ATM. If I found myself in circumstances so dire that I would be considering handing out pistols, the thought of the misdemeanor penalty left town 5 minutes ago.

 

[indykid]

Forgetting for a moment about the back up controversy, wouldn't this fall under Indiana's good samaritan law, or has that been done away with?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Forgetting for a moment about the back up controversy, wouldn't this fall under Indiana's good samaritan law, or has that been done away with?

The only good samaritan laws I'm familiar with protects people who attempt medical treatment, but I could be missing something.

There is nothing in the law that says "unless you're in danger" or the like. Technically, you are still breaking the law. However the law is never as black and white as people who aren't involved in it seem to think, and I would deem it extremely unlikely that any prosecutor in Indiana would file on it.

 

[in625shooter]

That would probably be the last of my worries (or even something I'd think about) however, If it was a life or serious enough situation (when deadly force is justified I'd say that would qualify) Even if one wanted to 9which I'd say won't happen) There would be a hard sell on any prosecutors to successfully charge someone. No different than someone that is a habitual traffic violator with a life time driving license suspension. Under Indiana law They are allowed to drive someone to the hospital only if a life or death situation.

 

[gvsugod]

I'm with ATM. If I found myself in circumstances so dire that I would be considering handing out pistols, the thought of the misdemeanor penalty left town 5 minutes ago.

THIS

If that push came to that shove, its a no brainer.

 

[Whosyer]

"A valid claim of defense of oneself or another person is legal justification for an otherwise criminal act. Ind. Code § 35-41-3-2(a)." IANAL , but I stumbled across this a while back. Can't remember where, but I wrote this much down. I think there was a case in Indiana, where a felon went to his neighbors vehicle, and retrieved a firearm to defend the neighbor. Can't remember the details.

 

[Bfish]

What ATM Rockhopper gvsugod are saying. The small issue of possible consequences is extremely negligible compared to the situation that would require passing off a pistol. I don't think if there were an active shooter threat or one of many other theoretical self defense situations that would call for such action of passing off a pistol that would then lead to trouble. Maybe more like the person would be commended for it.

 

[Bung]

If I drove by a school and heard gunfire, then went inside and killed a gunman that was shooting kids, I doubt even the dumbest, most Liberal DA would file charges against me. Weather or not there is a law in place to protect me, it seems there is. But, there are several cases like this each year and I haven't heard of any of them getting charged with possessing a weapon on school property.

I'm sure the Feds would be different. Let's say I worked at the Naval yard and concealed my gun. Then, I hear someone stalking around killing people with a shotgun. So I stop the guy with my hidden and certainly illegal gun. I'm sure I would spend 15 years in prison as thanks for stopping a mass-murder on Federal property.

 

[Jack Burton]

There is a world of difference linguistically speaking between the words "carry" and "use." Any competent attorney can quickly point out the difference.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Might be against a law, but find a prosecutor in Indiana who wold prosecute it and we can find a way for them to lose their job.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

"A valid claim of defense of oneself or another person is legal justification for an otherwise criminal act. Ind. Code § 35-41-3-2(a)." IANAL , but I stumbled across this a while back. Can't remember where, but I wrote this much down. I think there was a case in Indiana, where a felon went to his neighbors vehicle, and retrieved a firearm to defend the neighbor. Can't remember the details.

You can Google the IC code and read it. There's no language in there that matches. Later in the chapter it does say " No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.", but I've never taken that to mean you couldn't be charged for the actual act of protecting (the shooting, the stabbing, the punching, etc.) not any secondary crimes that may have been committed (carrying a handgun w/o a license, DUI, whatever). I know our prosecutor's office has debated on filing on someone carrying a handgun w/o a license who used it to defend themselves. This isn't the same thing as grabbing a gun in the heat of the moment, but actually carrying routinely w/o a permit and being discovered because the person had to use (or display) it. The case I'm thinking of wasn't mine, and I don't know how it shook out but I'll ask the detective who handled it the next time I see him.

 

[Arm America]

I think most of us here have the same thought process,

All joking aside, one could ask the unarmed person if they reside in Indiana,
are they a proper person,
then give them the damn gun.

 

[D-Ric902]

I think back to one of the church shootings (the one where the female guard engaged the shooter till he killed himself)
I remember that one of the guards was hiding and another of the church members was trying to get him to give him his gun so he could help. It makes you wonder how the end could have been different if he had engaged or given his firearm to the other guy to help.

 

[cosermann]

...Also, that's not why folks carry a BUG. ...

Actually it is one of many reasons to carry a BUG. However, that said, note in the video below Ayoob says it can be used to arm a, "trusted other person." Key word here is "trusted." There are only about 8 people that fall into this category for me. YMMV.

2010 Shot Show: Massad Ayoob talks about carrying a second firearm - YouTube

 

[MCrupe]

I carry a BUG mainly because my wife doesn't like to carry very often. She is getting used to carrying both open and concealed. So more often then not I carry 2. She has her permit so I am not worried about that but as far as handing over my BUG I would hand it over if and only if the person I was handing it over to had my trust and the knowledge to use the firearm.