Relatively Ninja
Sharpshooter
I was just asked to leave the Kroger store on the east side of Bloomington because I was OC'ing. More details to come soon; I'm emailing their corporate office while everything is fresh in my mind. Advice on what to say would be appreciated.
Details:
At approximately 9:00 on Thursday, April 5th, I was open carrying while shopping at the Kroger on College Mall Road in Bloomington Indiana. My girlfriend and I were looking for something to cook for dinner when we were approached by a security guard. He asked me if I was a police officer, I told him "no" and he told me that I wasn't allowed to carry a gun in the store. I asked him why; I told him that I have opened carried at that location many times and I've never had an issue. I thought Kroger sided with the state laws regarding citizens' rights, and I've never seen a no weapons sign at the door. He told me that was just the policy, but he didn't seem very sure of himself. He said you're allowed to carry a weapon if you have your license, but that you can't just carry into a grocery store. He was very unsure of the specifics of state law, as well as the places where you are and aren't allowed to carry a handgun. He told me he was "pretty sure" of the rules, but he could go ask the manager if I would like him to.
The security guard (he was wearing a uniform for a security company, he wasn't in a kroger uniform) returned and told me that the manager said I wasn't allowed to carry and that I needed to take my weapon out to my car. I told him that I would like to speak with his manager, so he went and fetched her. The manager I spoke with was a younger female (maybe 30-something) named Sheila. She told me that I wasn't allowed to carry a weapon in the store. I reiterated my belief that Kroger policy was to side with the state laws on citizens' rights, and asked her to clarify why I was being confronted. She said that the policy is a "very thin line" and that I could have frightened someone with my firearm. I asked her if there had been any complaints about me and she said no. The only reason I was called to her attention was because of the security guard. I told her that I understood if there was a complaint that she would have to decide whether to side with the customer that was scared of the weapon, or the customer that was carrying it, but because there were no complaints and the store policy didn't say "no weapons" that I was confused as to why I was being confronted about this. She said (again) that the policy was a "thin line" and that I should get my things and leave. I assumed by "things" she meant groceries. This confused me, because I was already trying to get my groceries and leave before I was approached. I wasn't just hanging out at the grocery store, I was grocery shopping!
I asked her several times to explain the "very thin line" policy, but she could not elaborate on it. She seemed to imply that the problem was that people could see my sidearm, and that someone might complain about that. I asked her if the real problem was that my sidearm was showing, and she said that it was. I covered it up with my sweatshirt and said "there, problem solved!
" She didn't seem very amused, and she again told me to get my things and leave as quickly as possible.
After that, I just left. I certainly didn't buy anything there. I went straight home and called customer service. The first customer service representative that I talked to told me that "Kroger policy is to side with state law concerning customers carrying weapons. Internal policies are not discussed outside of the company." I said, "Aha, that's what I thought! So I was entirely in my right to carry my weapon and that manager acted against company policy, right?" The guy that I was speaking with got a little confused, and told me that the policy allowed the store to side with state law, therefore forbidding me to carry a firearm. We went round and round a little bit because he kept contradicting himself. I told him that if the policy was no weapons, then the policy would say "no weapons". It would not say "Kroger policy is to side with state law."
He decided to bump me up to his supervisor, so I re-explained my situation to her and she told me the same thing; "Kroger policy is to side with state law concerning customers carrying weapons". She also said that the "thin line" the manager was referring to could have been the discretion a manager is allowed to use when asking a customer to leave if they are drunk, disruptive, etc. I assured her that I was none of those things, and that there were no customer complaints against me. After another couple minutes of talking with her, she told me that she would forward the situation to the people specifically in charge of the rules for the district that Kroger is in. I made sure she knew that I have been a loyal customer for several years, and that I've never had an issue carrying at this Kroger in the past. I also said that I would prefer to continue shopping there, but if store policy prevents me from exercising my rights then I would be forced to shop somewhere else. I told her that I believed the manager had made a snap judgement that went against the official policy of the store. I felt that I had been wronged by this decision, but I left anyways because I understand and respect her legal ability to ask me to leave. I should be receiving a call within "3-5 business days" from someone higher up the ladder to talk to me about what happened. I stayed calm and polite throughout all the conversations I had this evening: security guard, manager, and both customer service reps.
Details:
At approximately 9:00 on Thursday, April 5th, I was open carrying while shopping at the Kroger on College Mall Road in Bloomington Indiana. My girlfriend and I were looking for something to cook for dinner when we were approached by a security guard. He asked me if I was a police officer, I told him "no" and he told me that I wasn't allowed to carry a gun in the store. I asked him why; I told him that I have opened carried at that location many times and I've never had an issue. I thought Kroger sided with the state laws regarding citizens' rights, and I've never seen a no weapons sign at the door. He told me that was just the policy, but he didn't seem very sure of himself. He said you're allowed to carry a weapon if you have your license, but that you can't just carry into a grocery store. He was very unsure of the specifics of state law, as well as the places where you are and aren't allowed to carry a handgun. He told me he was "pretty sure" of the rules, but he could go ask the manager if I would like him to.
The security guard (he was wearing a uniform for a security company, he wasn't in a kroger uniform) returned and told me that the manager said I wasn't allowed to carry and that I needed to take my weapon out to my car. I told him that I would like to speak with his manager, so he went and fetched her. The manager I spoke with was a younger female (maybe 30-something) named Sheila. She told me that I wasn't allowed to carry a weapon in the store. I reiterated my belief that Kroger policy was to side with the state laws on citizens' rights, and asked her to clarify why I was being confronted. She said that the policy is a "very thin line" and that I could have frightened someone with my firearm. I asked her if there had been any complaints about me and she said no. The only reason I was called to her attention was because of the security guard. I told her that I understood if there was a complaint that she would have to decide whether to side with the customer that was scared of the weapon, or the customer that was carrying it, but because there were no complaints and the store policy didn't say "no weapons" that I was confused as to why I was being confronted about this. She said (again) that the policy was a "thin line" and that I should get my things and leave. I assumed by "things" she meant groceries. This confused me, because I was already trying to get my groceries and leave before I was approached. I wasn't just hanging out at the grocery store, I was grocery shopping!
I asked her several times to explain the "very thin line" policy, but she could not elaborate on it. She seemed to imply that the problem was that people could see my sidearm, and that someone might complain about that. I asked her if the real problem was that my sidearm was showing, and she said that it was. I covered it up with my sweatshirt and said "there, problem solved!
" She didn't seem very amused, and she again told me to get my things and leave as quickly as possible.After that, I just left. I certainly didn't buy anything there. I went straight home and called customer service. The first customer service representative that I talked to told me that "Kroger policy is to side with state law concerning customers carrying weapons. Internal policies are not discussed outside of the company." I said, "Aha, that's what I thought! So I was entirely in my right to carry my weapon and that manager acted against company policy, right?" The guy that I was speaking with got a little confused, and told me that the policy allowed the store to side with state law, therefore forbidding me to carry a firearm. We went round and round a little bit because he kept contradicting himself. I told him that if the policy was no weapons, then the policy would say "no weapons". It would not say "Kroger policy is to side with state law."
He decided to bump me up to his supervisor, so I re-explained my situation to her and she told me the same thing; "Kroger policy is to side with state law concerning customers carrying weapons". She also said that the "thin line" the manager was referring to could have been the discretion a manager is allowed to use when asking a customer to leave if they are drunk, disruptive, etc. I assured her that I was none of those things, and that there were no customer complaints against me. After another couple minutes of talking with her, she told me that she would forward the situation to the people specifically in charge of the rules for the district that Kroger is in. I made sure she knew that I have been a loyal customer for several years, and that I've never had an issue carrying at this Kroger in the past. I also said that I would prefer to continue shopping there, but if store policy prevents me from exercising my rights then I would be forced to shop somewhere else. I told her that I believed the manager had made a snap judgement that went against the official policy of the store. I felt that I had been wronged by this decision, but I left anyways because I understand and respect her legal ability to ask me to leave. I should be receiving a call within "3-5 business days" from someone higher up the ladder to talk to me about what happened. I stayed calm and polite throughout all the conversations I had this evening: security guard, manager, and both customer service reps.
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