At the Local Gun Store...

[Birds Away]

So I was in my LGS shooting the bull. A friend of mine was giving me crap for not shooting in the Action Pistol event recently. I told him that I really didn't like the 50yd shots as I thought they were of no use to me as far as training goes. I said there is no need to practice at 50yds as you would never need that to defend yourself. I said if the bad guy is 50yds away I would be heading in the other direction. There was a local LEO in the shop and, as he was laughing, he said "advance toward the objective!" I said, my #1 objective is to get my sorry behind home in one piece so I will be advancing in the other direction. Anyway, it was funny when it happened. What are your thoughts about the long shots in Action Pistol in regards to training?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Hitting long shots will make short shots easier.

 

[whoismunky]

Hitting long shots will make short shots easier.

I'd definitely agree with that!
But also your priorities are different than an LEO...he may have the duty to advance on someone 50 yards away or farther. It's always possible you're behind the best piece of cover you're gonna get at 50 yards and it's not a good situation to run. If you're not capable of making hits at that range (and keep in mind it would be under duress, too) then the best you can do is try 'suppressive fire' before you move. I'd rather just stop the threat.
You never know where you might be, who might be laying next to you, and what you might be stuck shooting with.
I do personally practice at 50 yards but that's the farthest I 'practice' with a handgun. Everything else is just stretching out for fun.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Hitting long shots will make short shots easier.

I'll agree with that, but I'll also add that its important to practice at a variety of ranges so you can instinctively know how you need to shoot at X yards for the proper balance of speed vs accuracy. A 50y shot and a 5y shot shouldn't be treated the same when it comes to proper sight alignment, etc.

The longer shots will definitely magnify any issues you have, though, and are definitely valuable in any training regiment.

 

[lonehand]

long shots

I see no use in shooting 50 yards , hell I have enough trouble hitting at 20

 

[actaeon277]

Are you saying there are no conceivable possibilities?

A loved one 50 yds from you being stabbed? Maybe you should advance, maybe victim doesn't have the time.

Crazed lunatic in a mass shooting scenario. You have no cover.....

 

[Birds Away]

I'd definitely agree with that!
But also your priorities are different than an LEO...he may have the duty to advance on someone 50 yards away or farther. It's always possible you're behind the best piece of cover you're gonna get at 50 yards and it's not a good situation to run. If you're not capable of making hits at that range (and keep in mind it would be under duress, too) then the best you can do is try 'suppressive fire' before you move. I'd rather just stop the threat.
You never know where you might be, who might be laying next to you, and what you might be stuck shooting with.
I do personally practice at 50 yards but that's the farthest I 'practice' with a handgun. Everything else is just stretching out for fun.

You have to understand that the LEO was laughing as he said it.

 

[Birds Away]

I'll agree with that, but I'll also add that its important to practice at a variety of ranges so you can instinctively know how you need to shoot at X yards for the proper balance of speed vs accuracy. A 50y shot and a 5y shot shouldn't be treated the same when it comes to proper sight alignment, etc.

The longer shots will definitely magnify any issues you have, though, and are definitely valuable in any training regiment.

Makes sense.

 

[in625shooter]

50 yards is really not as long as you think. Indiana use to require all LEO's (State, Municipal and County) to shoot a stage from 50 yards on the handgun qualification course. I believe the ISP still require the 50 yard stage. Although ILEA dropped it from the municipal and county requirements unless the department it's self requires it still.

Yes there are different priorities between a LEO and Joe public but you never know. Extreme scenario/example but take the LA bank robbery shootout several years ago. Where would you go to and do you know for sure you could move from cover to escape to a safe area??

 

[Mark 1911]

Hitting long shots will make short shots easier.

After all, why not take some long shots too? It's all practice.

 

[Mark 1911]

I'll agree with that, but I'll also add that its important to practice at a variety of ranges so you can instinctively know how you need to shoot at X yards for the proper balance of speed vs accuracy. A 50y shot and a 5y shot shouldn't be treated the same when it comes to proper sight alignment, etc.

The longer shots will definitely magnify any issues you have, though, and are definitely valuable in any training regiment.

Right. The more you vary your shots, the better you will know how that firearm behaves, which can only make you that much more proficient with that firearm. Besides, its all fun.

 

[Classic]

I have always included long shot handgun shooting. I think it is useful to vary practice distance anyway.

 

[cmamath13]

I would think that 5 to 25 yards for pistol is sufficient for training (defense). If you shoot over that, then that's fine too. Seems like I would want a long gun for shots further than 25 yards.

 

[M67]

50 yards isn't that far, but ignore the "defensive" point of view, how about the sport or distance shooting with a handgun?

First time I ever shot 230 yards, it wasn't with a rifle, it was with a pistol.

Distance is fun, challenging, and I'll agree that distance shots make short shots easier. Every flaw in your trigger pull or grip or breathing or sight alignment is magnified when you shoot at distance, so it really helps up close to being accurate and consistent.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Incrementally increasing your shooting distances, even if on a static and "square" range, WILL make you a better shooter, at all ranges, IF YOU'RE DOING IT RIGHT TO BEGIN WITH.

Yes, as has been said, sight alignment is different at 50 yards than at 5...goes without saying.

5 yards get too boring for you? try 10. That get too boring for you? Go 20! etc etc etc.

Shooting at longer distances definitely magnifies your deficiencies. In a big way. Sight alignment, grip, and trigger depression/motion need to be much more "better" at longer distances than they do at 5 yards.

If you have good enough grip, sight alignment (which can also be read "sight mastery", and trigger press to get your hits at long distance, just imagine how much tighter your groups will be at the shorter ranges!

Practicing GOOD technique is the key, though.

If your 5 yard target looks like it was hit with buckshot at 25 yards - you should stick to 5 yards for a while...

-J- (A guy who can hardly see a handgun target at 50 yards...)

 

[lovemachine]

I see no use in shooting 50 yards , hell I have enough trouble hitting at 20

I'll just leave this here....

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...vehicle_at_50yds_with_a_pistol_pics_vids.html

 

[Birds Away]

Ok, I stand corrected. At least on the training part. I still can't imagine a situation where I would take a 50yd tactical shot. You may be different but I know my limitations and at that range, with a handgun, I am probably more likely to hit something I don't want than something I do. YMMV and thanks for all of the input.

 

[CountryBoy19]

There was once a scenario proposed on INGO where you were on a walk with you wife and young child. Young child is riding his/her bike with training wheels or whatever and gets up ahead of the group about 50 yds or so. All of the sudden car pulls up, grabs child and tries to flee.

What do you do?

You sure the heck won't be running the other way...

While long pistol shots are VERY VERY VERY unlikely, they aren't completely outside of the realm of possibility.

 

[lovemachine]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...5-shooting_a_third_party_scenario_inside.html

 

[in625shooter]

Here is a real world shooting incident that happened on an USAF Base. In 1994 at Fairchild AFB in Spokane Washington the AF was getting ready to discharge a young man because of Psychiatric reasons. He showed up at the base hospital with a MAK 90. He deliberately targeted his Dr then started shooting up everyone in sight. 5 killed 23 wounded. As the AF Security Police were responding a lone patrolman on a bicycle patrol raced for a mile and started to deploy onto the scene when the shooter came out of the building. The AF Security Policeman dropped prone and immediately engaged at a distance of 73 yards. AMN Brown shot 4 rounds striking the gunman 3 times killing him.

A hero

If that link does not work try this and also "view related story"

http://m.spokesman.com/galleries/2010/jun/17/looking-back-fairchild-shootings/

As a side note ever since the Beretta M9 was adopted from the Model 15 revolver in 1988 by the USAF all AF SP personnel carried it with a round in the chamber and weapon on fire with a 15 round mag in the gun and spare 15 round mag on the belt. In 1999 because of this and several other shootings on AF bases the Chief security Forces got with JAG and was cleared to issue 9mm 124 grain JHP rounds for use and issue for all Security Forces at stateside bases in their M9 handguns. JAG ruled using JHP at stateside duty stations was not a violation of the Hague treaty since they are performing a LE duty. When you deploy you revert to ball ammo. M16 and M4's are still issued with FMJ ball ammo.