ATF 41P and other rule changes coming soon

[unshelledpilot]

I'm subscribed to quite a few gun channels on YT and I've heard nothing about this from them.

Here's the link to the DOJ page
View Rule

If you notice, at the bottom of this, it shows when the rule was proposed, when comments were closed, and when the DOJ plans on making a final ruling. The wording of this concerns me as well. It seems as though they plan to change the rule anyway, even after the huge push against it.

I would say we can't be caught sleeping on this. I'm writing my senator and house rep immediately after I'm done posting this here. I suggest you do the same.

 

[Light]

Sounds like they are finally pushing to make it harder to use trusts.
Definitely needs larger acknowledgement from the gun community!

 

[Beowulf]

It does seems like they are trying to hammer this through, regardless of the massive backlash.

Here is the text of their proposal. It's a long read, but worth it.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-09-09/pdf/2013-21661.pdf#page=1

They plan to require that all responsible persons in a trust (including trustees and beneficiaries) would be required to submit PAPER fingerprint cards and photographs. They would also be required to get CLEO signature and sign off, though the ATF will be removing the language in the form that requires the CLEO to state they have a no knowledge the parties receiving the NFA weapon plan to engaged in any unlawful behavior.

The ridiculous thing is that their document repeatedly acknowledges that they know CLEOs are not always cooperative with signing Form 1s and Form 4s, which effectively acts as a defacto ban on individuals owning perfectly legal NFA items. They also acknowledge that this requirement would increase the paperwork the ATF will have to deal with, as well as adding extra burden on State and Local LE agencies to process all this. They also break down the amount of time and cost all this new compliance will take on the individuals and it runs into the millions of dollars and crazy amounts of time.

Nowhere that I can find in the proposal indicates the concrete problems this is supposedly going to address. They talk about hypotheticals, about how someone could possibly get access that shouldn't, but not how much of a problem this really is.

This is extremely frustrating.

 

[Beowulf]

Also, the ATF indicates multiple times that these changes are being made in response to requests from the National Firearms Act Trade and Collectors Association (NFATCA), making it appear they are simply changing process due to requests from the gun owner community at large. NFATCA refutes this and charges that while they did request changes (primarily, the removal of the CLEO sign off requirement), the actual 41p proposal is significantly different than their proposal and actually violates the ATFs regulatory authority and that they vehemently oppose adoption of this rule change.

http://www.nfatca.org/pubs/NFATCA_41P_submission.pdf

 

[unshelledpilot]

Frustrating to say the least. What will happen in three years when the m855 ban suddenly appears on this list? I don't see any of the gun channels on YT talking about it either. No one seems to care about this anymore.

 

[dudley0]

Not to run scared but I guess I need to start my F1 for my AK. That way it will be in the trust before they do anything.

Looking up those who were voted in and getting a letter ready to send.

 

[chef1231]

I agree better safe then sorry

 

[tatic05]

Not to run scared but I guess I need to start my F1 for my AK. That way it will be in the trust before they do anything.

Looking up those who were voted in and getting a letter ready to send.

Once I get back from my vacation, Im putting my form 1 in on hopefully 3 items. I know I wont have the money for all three but maybe I can get them in before this goes into place.

 

[Beowulf]

Once I get back from my vacation, Im putting my form 1 in on hopefully 3 items. I know I wont have the money for all three but maybe I can get them in before this goes into place.

If you can just get the bare receivers (or tubes, if you are making cans), get them registered then complete them when you can. I've thought about doing that for an MP5SD semi build, but I just didn't want to spend the money (even just the receiver is expensive).

 

[tatic05]

If you can just get the bare receivers (or tubes, if you are making cans), get them registered then complete them when you can. I've thought about doing that for an MP5SD semi build, but I just didn't want to spend the money (even just the receiver is expensive).

Thats my hope.

Any idea if it will effect people that currently have trusts set up?

 

[Ericpwp]

We need "Shall Sign" legislation. Then it would be moot.

 

[Beowulf]

We need "Shall Sign" legislation. Then it would be moot.

No, still not moot. You'll be required to submit fingerprints and pictures for every responsible party on your trust every time. Plus, it forces us to be stuck with paper forms forever, even though it's quicker to process electronic forms.

It keeps the system completely inefficient and stuck in a 1930's method of filing.

 

[Beowulf]

Thats my hope.

Any idea if it will effect people that currently have trusts set up?

It won't affect (as far as I know) any transfers that have already gone through, just on new ones. So the ones on your trust currently would be fine. The new ones would need to go through the new process.

Though that does beg the question, what happens when you add a new person to your trust that already has NFA items on it? Say I get married (which I'm sure would make my mother ecstatic) and want to add my wife to my NFA trust. Do I need to file paperwork for all the items on the trust for her, even though they've already been transferred to the trust? If so, what's the mechanism for that? If not, then it further points out how ridiculous this whole enterprise is, since evil sneaky felons and terrorists can just have a patsy buy up a bunch of NFA items (cause a terrorist is much more likely to spend $20,000 on a transferrable AK-47 made in 1980 than spend $1000 and buy a brand new one from a Mexican drug cartel). Then the patsy can add them to the trust afterward.... and then something, since apparently criminals and terrorists have a compulsion to follow bureaucratic rules and processes.

 

[wsenefeld]

Thats my hope.

Any idea if it will effect people that currently have trusts set up?

If it does, trying to get all of the current trusts and items on those trusts up to their level of 41p compliance would take years for the NFA branch to go through even if we all complied within the first week of implementation.

 

[Bfish]

Based on the link it looks like there are a few months, but I better get a form 1 on an SBR and a suppressor purchased/paper work in for before this takes effect!

 

[Bfish]

Has anyone seen this?

GOP Reps To Block DOJ's Backdoor Gun Control

 

[chef1231]

It seems like Dec is the month for this to kick in. I just bought an MK18 Sbr and they said the form 3 from dealer to dealer would take about 2 months then they could get my paperwork going. Hope to have everything done by dec with stamp in hand, we shall see. Now I need to roll a suppresser quickly for it as well.

 

[Bfish]

If that link above is correct, and congress does indeed strike it down then it will be a non issue.

 

[roscott]

Rep. Steve Israel, "Once again the Republicans are governing dangerously by planning to offer a poison pill amendment that jeopardizes the safety of our law enforcement and first responders."

I hate that they continually throw out the "first-responder safety" card as an excuse for more firearms legistature. All the first responders I work with tend to range from mildly opposed to vehemently opposed to more gun control.

 

[chef1231]

Sorry Im a slow study... I saw on the silencerco Facebook page that this was already defeated? So is it still on the table or what?