Avocado's, border tax and Peso....

[WebSnyper]

The point of tariffs is to make the locally priced goods more competitive if they exist. Obviously if you still buy the foreign/imported item post tariff, then you as the consumer will be paying an increased price.

However, if you switch to a locally produced item due to the price differential being non existent, etc then the local producer wins.

But, I would have to say, I agree with Phylo on the undocumented using government assistance.

On the other side, if you already here/have been here and paying taxes and can prove it, and don't have a criminal record, there should be a way to citizenship.

 

[WebSnyper]

Not to mention, most of them illegals are paying more in taxes than 60% of US citizens.

Source?

 

[Jludo]

The point of tariffs is to make the locally priced goods more competitive if they exist. Obviously if you still buy the foreign/imported item post tariff, then you as the consumer will be paying an increased price.

However, if you switch to a locally produced item due to the price differential being non existent, etc then the local producer wins.

But, I would have to say, I agree with Phylo.

And the consumer loses.

 

[Jludo]

So I don't have to worry about my Mexi-Coke from Sam's Club going up anytime soon? Whew! That stuff is damn near nirvana, just add a little Sailor Jerry and you're there!!

Just think if our govt. wasn't incompetent and corrupt your regular Coke could be made with real Sugar. Sugar price floors, govt. cronyism at it's best.

One of my favorite Plane Money episodes though.

The Lollipop War : Planet Money : NPR

 

[Vigilant]

Not to mention, most of them illegals are paying more in taxes than 60% of US citizens.

Deducted from their check, maybe, actually paid to the .gov, doubt it!

 

[CHCRandy]

Source?

My only source is my word from personal experience, and I have no reason to not tell the truth. I know I write a lot of 1099's(and never hear from IRS on them) and see my fair share of Indiana workers comp waivers (which you can't get if you owe taxes). I know they pay social security even though they can't receive it. I had one sub a couple of years ago that paid $40,000 in federal and self employment taxes....I know a lot of Americans that have not paid that combined in their lifetime!

I did find a couple other sources if you care to look at them. I was just like you 15 years ago. I thought they came here and made money, untaxed, sent it home and that was that. Use to chap my ass. Then I started working with them and I realized it's not like that. When they start work for someone it's not like you can pay them cash and that's it. You have to be able to 1099 expenses or withhold taxes on them or you would go broke paying the taxes on what they earned. They have to fill out a W9 like everyone else, and if they give a fake name and TIN, the IRS will bust them and notify employer (this happened once when I made numerical error on 1099).

50% of legal citizens in the US pay no tax....In 2015, 45 Percent Of Americans Will Pay No Income Tax | The Daily Caller

Immigrants pay billions in taxes and SS......Study: 'Undocumented' Immigrants Pay Billions in Taxes | US News

 

[WebSnyper]

And the consumer loses.

Never said that wasn't the case. The point was that a tariff is a protectionist tool. The other point is that American manufacturers are not on level playing field on many levels, including but not limited to labor costs, but also tons of regulations, etc. I'm pro free market, myself, but we don't currently have a free market, nor have we for some time.

My only source is my word from personal experience, and I have no reason to not tell the truth. I know I write a lot of 1099's(and never hear from IRS on them) and see my fair share of Indiana workers comp waivers (which you can't get if you owe taxes). I know they pay social security even though they can't receive it. I had one sub a couple of years ago that paid $40,000 in federal and self employment taxes....I know a lot of Americans that have not paid that combined in their lifetime!

I did find a couple other sources if you care to look at them. I was just like you 15 years ago. I thought they came here and made money, untaxed, sent it home and that was that. Use to chap my ass. Then I started working with them and I realized it's not like that. When they start work for someone it's not like you can pay them cash and that's it. You have to be able to 1099 expenses or withhold taxes on them or you would go broke paying the taxes on what they earned. They have to fill out a W9 like everyone else, and if they give a fake name and TIN, the IRS will bust them and notify employer (this happened once when I made numerical error on 1099).

50% of legal citizens in the US pay no tax....In 2015, 45 Percent Of Americans Will Pay No Income Tax | The Daily Caller

Immigrants pay billions in taxes and SS......Study: 'Undocumented' Immigrants Pay Billions in Taxes | US News

The reason I asked for a source is you threw out a %. If you had said, in my experience, here's how it goes, (which you just did), that goes a lot farther with me, than a random %. Understanding your point of view as an employer is helpful.

I don't think they don't pay taxes at all... I was questioning the random statistic.

From the article:

xplaining the figures Tuesday on the TPC blog, Roberton Williams, Sol Price fellow for TPC, said it “doesn’t mean more Americans have moved off the tax rolls … the higher estimate reflects new and better estimates of the number of Americans who don’t file tax returns.” Looking to the future, TPC estimates the number not paying tax will fall to 40 percent by 2025. The TPC’s estimates count those who don’t file their income taxes as paying no income tax but the blog caveats “that’s almost certainly not right.”

I would not equate someone who does not file a tax return to not paying taxes...

From the second article you provided:

"Undocumented immigrants' nationwide average effective tax rate is an estimated 8 percent," the report said. "To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent of taxpayers pay an average nationwide effective tax rate of just 5.4 percent."

...

In 2010, the average unlawful immigrant household received around $24,721 in government benefits and services while paying some $10,334 in taxes," a report from the right-leaning Heritage Foundation think tank said in 2013. "This [deficit's] cost had to be borne by U.S. taxpayers."

In other words, even though immigrants in the country illegally pay billions of dollars to the U.S. government in the form of taxes, some research still pegs them as a net drain on government resources.

I'm going to say, I'm paying a heck of a lot more than 8%... and the article itself indicates they are a net drain.




​

 

[Jludo]

Never said that wasn't the case. The point was that a tariff is a protectionist tool. The other point is that American manufacturers are not on level playing field on many levels, including but not limited to labor costs, but also tons of regulations, etc. I'm pro free market, myself, but we don't currently have a free market, nor have we for some time.

​

Then we lower taxes and regulations here, we don't add protectionist barriers. If labor in china is cheaper then so be it, it is a net gain in value for the US to import those goods. The diffuse cost to every consumer of a protectionist policy outweighs the concentrated benefit of the select jobs that are gained/retained.

 

[WebSnyper]

Then we lower taxes and regulations here, we don't add protectionist barriers. If labor in china is cheaper then so be it, it is a net gain in value for the US to import those goods. The diffuse cost to every consumer of a protectionist policy outweighs the concentrated benefit of the select jobs that are gained/retained.

Again, I never advocated for tariffs... just explaining the purpose for those that may not understand it. Those dollars (that would be collected in tariffs) could certainly be spent elsewhere that could also stimulate the economy, rather than going to govt. I'm not a fan of handing money to the govt.
Also, there are some markets that probably do need to be abandoned to be able to focus on where a country has a competitive advantage.

 

[BE Mike]

I'd just avoid it by buying these avocados: Tom Selleck Is An Avocado Farmer Now - Celebrity Tune

 

[BE Mike]

No need to worry about Avocado prices if they deport the illegals......cost of homes will triple, roof replacement, lawn care, apples, all will triple. Not to mention, most of them illegals are paying more in taxes than 60% of US citizens.



Yeah, If they deport them we are screwed. The way the younger American laborers work, things would triple in cost, or maybe more.

My experience differs from your predictions. Just how does an employer collect payroll taxes from an illegal who doesn't have a social security number? What employer of illegals would leave a paper trail showing that he/ she was violating the law by hiring illegals? I've seen where unscrupulous employers deducted payroll and social security from workers, but pocketed the money. I've also seen where employers of illegals kept the estimates of the jobs you describe close to the same for those that hire US citizens. The employer thus pockets more of the money for the job. The customer pays up for sometimes less quality work.

 

[CHCRandy]

My experience differs from your predictions. Just how does an employer collect payroll taxes from an illegal who doesn't have a social security number? What employer of illegals would leave a paper trail showing that he/ she was violating the law by hiring illegals? I've seen where unscrupulous employers deducted payroll and social security from workers, but pocketed the money. I've also seen where employers of illegals kept the estimates of the jobs you describe close to the same for those that hire US citizens. The employer thus pockets more of the money for the job. The customer pays up for sometimes less quality work.

I can't speak for those who withhold taxes but I assume it is the same way I do. I can only tell you that the people I 1099 have SS#'s or ITIN numbers. ITIN is always a nine digit number that starts with a 9 and have either a 7 or 8 as the 4th digit, which I get on a W-9 and then e verify. ITIN is for tax purposes only and cannot be shared with immigration officials....

I also think it is a big misconception that illegals work for beans......some guys may work them for cheap and pay cash or not pay them at all.....but they are fly by night operations to start with, that most likely have no insurance and don't pay taxes themselves. The cheap horse left the stable long ago. My guys have to carry workers comp and insurance for all work, this costs quite a bit in itself.

 

[BE Mike]

I can't speak for those who withhold taxes but I assume it is the same way I do. I can only tell you that the people I 1099 have SS#'s or ITIN numbers. ITIN is always a nine digit number that starts with a 9 and have either a 7 or 8 as the 4th digit, which I get on a W-9 and then e verify. ITIN is for tax purposes only and cannot be shared with immigration officials....

I also think it is a big misconception that illegals work for beans......some guys may work them for cheap and pay cash or not pay them at all.....but they are fly by night operations to start with, that most likely have no insurance and don't pay taxes themselves. The cheap horse left the stable long ago. My guys have to carry workers comp and insurance for all work, this costs quite a bit in itself.

Of course every employer has an I-9 on file for all of his employees that is available for Immigration Officers to inspect.

 

[CHCRandy]

Of course every employer has an I-9 on file for all of his employees that is available for Immigration Officers to inspect.

I can't speak for them, I don't have employees. I don't know how they do it.....a lot of places have paid employees though. You look at lawn care & restaurants are the 2 obvious ones that have to withhold......construction I understand, because the contractor just has to verify the subcontractor representative is legal. Maybe a lot of them have green cards.....I honestly don't know.

 

[hoosierdoc]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...jump-as-avocado-shortage-sparks-record-prices

 

[halfmileharry]

Act like a Liberal and boycott the products then the product rots.
Middleman buys less, farmer has to sell for less, consumer pays less.
Always stomp on the poor sob trying to survive. It's just good business practice.