Back Up Sights

[ghostinthewood]

Back up sights are common but there seems to be two common configurations. Red dots with cowitnessed irons or scopes with 40° offset sights. The offset sights are usually done because of rail space and because it's quicker and easier than removing glass. Here is my question though, would 45° offset sights also be practical paired with red dots? It seems irons are only a contingency if the batteries die. If the glass becomes obscure for any reason (rain, fog, glass being scratched/broken, mud, etc) then the cowitnessed irons may also be obscured.

However i I never see offset sights on guns with red dots. Is there something I am missing or is everyone just banking on their luck being better than that?

 

[chezuki]

If the glass becomes obscure for any reason (rain, fog, glass being scratched/broken, mud, etc) then the cowitnessed irons may also be obscured.

However i I never see offset sights on guns with red dots. Is there something I am missing or is everyone just banking on their luck being better than that?

Quick detach mount. Dump the optic, and the iron sights are still where they belong.

 

[ghostinthewood]

Sure, but in the instance that dumping it is not viable why not 45° offset?

 

[Audie Murphy]

Oops never mind,read the topic wrong

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Sure, but in the instance that dumping it is not viable why not 45° offset?

I think the scenarios were dumping isn't an option is not offset by the need to change your normal shooting stance/hold. I'm also thinking on longer shots it's going to be an issue as the AR is set up for a parabola, turning it 45 degrees is going to change that arch and move your point of impact.

Just guesses, I'm still learning when it comes to red dots.

 

[worddoer]

(This is all my opinion and should be taken seriously because I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night!)

I agree with Blue I's. I cannot imagine very many scenarios where using a quick detach mount is not a viable option. And considering you are talking about a scenario that is beyond optic failure (assuming you are co-witnessing) where the optic is obstructed by broken glass or something blocking the optic, I just don't see it as something with a high odds of happening. With that said, even thought it is unlikely, it could happen.

I could see this being beneficial during shooting competitions where you are very quickly changing from far shots to up close shots back to far shots. That is where I have seen it used in the past. Some shooters use this with their optics setup for longer distance shots and then run iron sights for close shots.

However, a quick detach mount (which I use) only takes me 2-5 seconds to remove the optic if setup properly. It could vary a bit depending on if you are using a single or dual lever system.

If you are concerned about the batteries dying on your red dot, then change them out regularly. Issue resolved.

If you are concerned about the broken obstructed red dot during a SHTF scenario where you may be forced to go back to iron sights permanently, then why use a 45% offset. The 45% offset does mess with your check weld, your grip on the pistol grip and the hand guard, and generally make the ergos of the AR-15 worse. Would you want to permanently have to hold your rifle funky because the only sights you have are on a 45% offset?

I think they are a useful tool for competitive shooters. But I don't see them being useful in a defensive roll. I could be wrong, but I have not seen any military top tier units run these. And those guys can get what they want as they need it to stay alive with the stuff they do. I think it's a niche item.

 

[ghostinthewood]

I have seen some of them use offset 45* red dots or irons on scoped weapons but not weapons with red dots as primaries. I guess I should also clarify I think folding offset irons are more practical than merely just offsets. I am just trying to think out loud and bounce ideas off people. I dont know what is right or wrong or if there is a black or white answer. I just like to keep my logic in check and I can only argue with myself so much. Let me also say I am referring to defensive distances and I have an EOTech. Her gun has just irons. I am not worried about optic "failure" (battery life is decent and I change them regularly and I keep spares in my grip) as much as I am worried about "temporary obstruction."

Let me lay out a couple scenarios.

My girlfriend and I ran some drills a couple weeks ago using VTac barricades and tables thrown around. Long story short, I got my truck stuck (2WD) and stubbornly tried to get it unstuck to no avail. We decided to shoot in the dark anyway and call it "low light training" and not "i am frustrated and by God I am shooting these rifles today." Naturally it started to rain more as it got darker. We were getting down and dirtier than we planned. Mud and rain got on my EOTech. Made the dot or target hard to see depending on the mud/rain combination. I have MBUS's but That didnt help much. I do not have a quick detach mount for my EOTech. It seemed to me that if I had folding sights that were offset, I could deploy them quicker than detaching my optic and stowing it somewhere. The targets were 10-20yrds. They would be deployed as fast as any other back up sight. It would still be just as effective in engaging targets, and I would not have to take time to detach an optic that I can clean quickly when I get a moment. The biggest disadvantage I can see is we were working on shooting around things and staying behind cover. Rotating the gun makes the elbow flare a little and makes shooting left handed a lot harder. Shooting the gun with just irons was slower when the red dot was uninterrupted, but obviously had no problems otherwise.

Here is another issue I am having. I keep my carbine in my trunk. Sometimes I keep my shotgun in there but I no longer do that since I broke the TLR3 I was using on it off (seeing a trend on how i shoot/treat things?). Some people think trunk guns are unnecessary but thats neither here nor there. I like one. Its cold. Sometimes I take my gun from inside, put in in my trunk, and in that walk it fogs. Once again, the optic hasnt been broken or "failed" i just cant see anything through it. Detaching it seems slower and more unnecessary than flipping up sights that are slightly offset.

 

[Jagunn]

The red dot would be used for 100+ yards and with my red dot that i have if the sight goes dead the reticle is still visible, but the 45 degree sights are used for anything under 100 yards.. just my personal preference

 

[451_Detonics]

single lever and optics are off and the irons are right where they should be...

 

[ghostinthewood]

I like my folding sights. My girlfriend's AR has fixed sights but all other things being equal, I like mine out of the way. In fact, I dont even like how big my EOTech is and I will probably replace it. It just seems if one were to have a pair of folding sights they're better off being offset slightly.

You have a super interesting gun there though, cut A2 upper?

 

[bigcraig]

For me, the following is my chosen set up.

All my AR's that use fixed 1X RDS get flip up front and rear BUIS and use a lower 1/3 co-witness. I like a clean sight picture when running a RDS. That said, I have found that running fixed BUIS that are absolute co-witnessed is not bad, not bad at all.

All my AR's that run any magnified optic gets a set of fixed offset BUIS. My only caveat to this, is if I become wealthy and buy a few of the Aimpoint T-1's with offset mounts, then the gun will get NO BUIS at all.

That said, all my guns run LaRue QD mounts regardless if they are RDS or magnified. Reason being that if the optic gets fubar'd, I ditch it when time permits.

My $.02

 

[ghostinthewood]

Like I said, the concern wasn't it getting broken, just temporarily obscured. I guess if there isn't an inherent reason not to run offset irons other than people here prefer QD mounts then theres no reason not to.

 

[cop car]

I never really liked any part of the idea of offset iron sights. I feel like they would get caught on lots of things. And put me in a new awkward shooting position that would be distracting. Mine also has a laser on it (to address your issue of temporary fogged or blocked glass, however this happening on an ecotech and not being able to use it would be highly unlikely)