Being a Teamster... should I be proud or terrified?

[flagtag]

Donnely, you are so right! And for those reasons (and the threat of Obama in office), we have to prepare NOW, not later (if he does get in) for the destruction of our country, via our rights. (One of the first steps in his "Change" "promise" [threat])

We will be on our own!

 

[4sarge]

1) The union said they endorse Obama. Isn't it nice to have the knowledge that your dollars (union dues) are going to help elect a Harvard educated elitest who doesn't trust you and will be more than willing to sign off on gun confiscation or at least additional gun restrictions if he gets elected?

2) Just as you will not convince anyone of the need for unions on this message board, you most likely will not convince anyone in a union that Obama is evil (i.e. - a socialist in Democrat clothing). Most of it has to do with mindset. Democrats are borderline socialist; they expect something for nothing, or something for doing less than their fair share. They expect the redistribution of wealth, or as they like to call it, taking from the rich and giving to the poor. I call it legalized theft. The bottom line is that Democrats are for "big brother" government, and Barack Obama wants to be that big brother. In the conservative mindset, conservatives just want the governement to leave them alone. McCain is not the candidate to do this, and the conservative voting populace knows it. This is why they are so dissatisfied with the expected Republican nomination of McCain. He is simply Big Brother - lite version. This is why Barack will most likely win; he has motivated the liberal voting base with his words. McCain will not be able motivate the conservative voting base.

Most of the people on a message board like this are going to have a conservative mindset; it goes along with owning a gun and having the motivation to protect yourself instead of expecting Big Brother (the government - aka: the police) to protect you.

+1 Post

 

[BloodEclipse]

1)
Just as you will not convince anyone of the need for unions on this message board, you most likely will not convince anyone in a union that Obama is evil (i.e. - a socialist in Democrat clothing). Most of it has to do with mindset. Democrats are borderline socialist; they expect something for nothing, or something for doing less than their fair share.

You are making a big assumption here (Union workers are Democrats who follow the Union). The fact is it is not true by a large degree. I am an OPENLY Republican UAW Union member and have been since joining it 1994. I always talk/debate politics at work and I would say the split is about 50/50 Liberals/Conservatives notice I didn't say Democrats/Republicans. While alot of members are not OPENLY Conservative they have came to realize that if they want to keep more of their hard earned money that they need to Vote conservatively. It's not just that but the 2nd Amendment is real important to them as well.
So anyone who thinks that Union members are just, who do everything the Union dictates (or is that recommends?), are dead wrong.
Something I always tell people is that the Democrats are invested in misery. They always list all of the things that are wrong when campaigning but yet when they have held power they do nothing to fix it, because if they did they couldn't use it as an issue in the next campaign.

 

[Donnelly]

Well, BloodEclipse, I am glad that your UAW local is about 50/50 Liberal/Conservative, but I would be willing to bet that that figure is not the norm in most unions. The union I have the most experience with is AFSCME (American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees) and I am here to tell you, all the leadership of the local here are Democrat. Now some claim to be conservative, but when it comes down to voting, or helping out with a campaign, it is always for the Democrat, every time.

Again, your union dues will go to support the Democrat running for office. So how is it that the members aren't acting as sheep, doing everything that the union suggests (dictates)? When is the last time your local had a full membership vote on who they would support in the election, or where the money would go that your local collects and sends to the national. I am willing to bet that if your local had a motion and a vote on endorsing McCain, and asked for your local's share of dues to go to him, the national would laugh in your faces.

I'm sorry. Unions might do some good, but unions also provide way more misery than they help to alleviate. In the long run, they are an idea whose time has came and went.

 

[haldir]

My Dad was a UAW member (Chrysler in Kokomo), my Father-in-Law was a Teamster. Both were Republicans for the most part (FiL less so). I think the rank and file are more conservative than the leadership is.

I think the Unions had a lot to do with the rise of the middle class in this country and did great things in the early years. Now they are little more than a fund raising arm of the Democrat party.

 

[Bill of Rights]

1) This is why Barack will most likely win; he has motivated the liberal voting base with his words. McCain will not be able motivate the conservative voting base.

Good post! I do wonder, though, if Obama will, in fact, motivate both the Liberal and the Conservative bases where McCain cannot. Obviously, Obama has and will continue to motivate the Liberal base to vote for him, but where McCain is unable to motivate the Conservative base for himself, Obama may just be scary enough to that same base that they'll get out to the polls and vote against him.

At this point, I think that's the best we can hope for politically, unless McCain has a heart attack and the GOP has no choice left but to nominate Ron Paul. (note that I am not wishing a heart attack on McCain or anyone else)

Blessings,
B

 

[rhino]

If a significant majority of union members (including teachers) did not routinely vote for the most socialist-statist candidates, Congress would have a complete different composition, with far more traditional conservatives as well as libertarians regardless of part affiliation. The last few presidential races would not have been close. In fact, we probably would have had different nominees.

 

[BloodEclipse]

The union I have the most experience with is AFSCME (American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees) and I am here to tell you, all the leadership of the local here are Democrat. Now some claim to be conservative, but when it comes down to voting, or helping out with a campaign, it is always for the Democrat, every time.

The Union you mention is a typical Union that has members that support the Idea of Big Government because they are government employess and they believe that the Democrats will help save thier jobs. This is not true in other Unions where the Democrats don't do anything but take thier money.

Again, your union dues will go to support the Democrat running for office. So how is it that the members aren't acting as sheep, doing everything that the union suggests (dictates)?

Yeah some of my Union dues go to support the canidate, but what they can't buy is my vote. Believe me there are alot of people in the Unions who are Conservative and VOTE that way. You won't see any of us at a Democratic fundraiser, call bank,or rally.

 

[flagtag]

The Union you mention is a typical Union that has members that support the Idea of Big Government because they are government employess and they believe that the Democrats will help save thier jobs. This is not true in other Unions where the Democrats don't do anything but take thier money.



Yeah some of my Union dues go to support the canidate, but what they can't buy is my vote. Believe me there are alot of people in the Unions who are Conservative and VOTE that way. You won't see any of us at a Democratic fundraiser, call bank,or rally.

That is correct. I have made my feelings about Obama quite clear and there is nothing my union can do about it.
I choose!

 

[Donnelly]

SavageEagle, flagtag, and BloodEclipse, I am just glad that you are all pro-gun and appear to be ready to vote for whomever is running against the socialist, elitist Barack Hussien Obama. For both of these points, I am happy.

 

[SavageEagle]

melensdad - Calm down. I wasn't saying todays economy. I'm talking pre-$3/gal gas here. Not $5 diesel. So back when Eby-Brown drivers were making $14/hr, McLaine drivers were making 16-18 an hour. I know real well about how the industry works, I've been around it for 18 years. I'm now 26, not 18. What I'm trying to say is that the company was corrupt when it came to DOT and it ONLY payed good when they didn't cut your hours. Some guys ran 14-18 hours some only ran 7 or 10.

Like FoxConn should pay their A+ and MCSE certified techs more than 10.50/h, FoxConn should build these computers in a cleaner environment. Most of the comps have more dust on them than my home computer! It is a paycheck, but alone it doesn't pay the bills.

Economy... World Economy... Since when did we start exporting more than we import? The only effect the world economy REALLY effects us is how much it costs US. We don't export hardly anything anymore because so called "American Buisnessmen" sold the rights to their "American Products" to foriegners and now we have to IMPORT THEM. We have our own oil, but it must be good buisness not to use it. Maye once we start paying 10/gal then 4 won't look so bad anymore. I dunno. But anyway, my point is, why should we import all this crap from China and everywhere else when we can make it and sell it here in our own Country? Oh did I mention the JOBS that would bring... Oh but our taxes are too high here and we pay our workers too much money here... But our working class is going homeless and poor... How's that work again?

Donnelly- (1) Thank God I don't pay dues and haven't for a year or more...
(2) I'm all for taxing the **** out of the rich! Why not? Oh WAAAAH! I made 5000 dollars this month and they took 1500 of it! WAAAAHAAAH Cry me a frickin river, please. I'd LOVE to make more than 2 grand a month! Poor, pitiful rich people cant get that new p**** ass BMW that just came out. Gotta wait another week. Sheesh. Don't get me wrong, I love rich people. I feel sorry for how BAD they have it. Blah. I'm all for as little government as possible. I'm all for doing away with handouts. That won't happen, but at least put a stricter leash around it. If you're 22 and no job and not disabled why should you get 400/mo in food stamps? Why should you get medicaid? If you're illegal, why are you getting those things? Give us that back, you didn't earn it! And why aren't you paying higher taxes than me? Oooo that'd keep em out!

I'm neither a conservative or a liberal. There are good about both and horrible about both. BUT WE TOLARATE IT! WHY? Laziness? Stupidity? Naivity?

Ok, I don't care anymore. My meds are wearing off and I need a smoke.

 

[Lars]

Savage, You realize those "Rich People" you advocate taxing the **** out of.... Employ ME?

I don't work for a multi-national company working on an economic scale in the Billions. I do work for a small company with three owners who the federal government considers "RICH"

If they get the **** taxed out of them..... They have to cut expenses to pay the tax bill. Their #1 expense is Labor.

Do the math.

 

[SavageEagle]

Ok then that goes back around to PRODUCING OUR OWN STUFF! I bet the price of living would PLUMMET if electricity prices dropped or dissappeared all together, gas prices drop from drilling our own oil, food drops from MAKING OUR OWN, Housing prices drop because we need to eliminate the property tax... All that can be accomplished if the rich buisness owners would be just a tiny bit more patriotic and quit selling out to foriegn countries! And if these lazy stupid people quit looking for hand outs. And we start treating aliens, illegal and legal, how they should be treated... taxing them for starters and quit letting them get OUR free hand outs.

 

[BloodEclipse]

SavageEagle it appears that you have some Conservative ideas but you seem to have fell into the liberal trap of Class envy.
More than 40% of all Americans pay no Federal Income Tax. Half or more of those actually get back some they never paid in.
Guess who is paying out that money? That would be my tax dollars at work.
When you hear Liberals talking about tax cuts not being fair and favoring the rich I gotta ask "How friggin fair is it that some people don't pay and others get money they never paid?" This is nothing more then Vote Buying.
If we lower tax rates you can't get lower than 0% unless your the government. So what happens when the number of people that don't pay taxes becomes 50% or greater?
Rich people know how to protect what they have worked hard for and from some reports I have been watching they are moving out of Country. Why stay in a system that abuses you and punishes you for being sucessful?

 

[flagtag]

SavageEagle it appears that you have some Conservative ideas but you seem to have fell into the liberal trap of Class envy.
More than 40% of all Americans pay no Federal Income Tax. Half or more of those actually get back some they never paid in.
Guess who is paying out that money? That would be my tax dollars at work.
When you hear Liberals talking about tax cuts not being fair and favoring the rich I gotta ask "How friggin fair is it that some people don't pay and others get money they never paid?" This is nothing more then Vote Buying.
If we lower tax rates you can't get lower than 0% unless your the government. So what happens when the number of people that don't pay taxes becomes 50% or greater?
Rich people know how to protect what they have worked hard for and from some reports I have been watching they are moving out of Country. Why stay in a system that abuses you and punishes you for being sucessful?

I agree that we should produce here and keep more of it here, instead of importing what we need. We are now dependent on other countries for too much. We need to be more self-sufficient.

And as for "protecting what they have worked hard for", don't forget, they couldn't have done it alone. Without the labor force, how far would Wal-Mart have gotten, for example? (Yes, I know that is a poor example) But the point is, take any group of say, 5 people producing ? tires ?.) How many could they produce all by themselves? Enough to supply the whole country's' needs? I don't think so. Employers and employees are a TEAM! Each needs the other. When the company starts thinking of employees as "servants", there only to serve the Company owner's profits, then there is a problem.
I am old enough to remember when employers and employees were "partners" in the success of the company. They were "family". And there was PRIDE in what was produced. This is no longer the case, sadly.

 

[melensdad]

All that can be accomplished if the rich buisness owners would be just a tiny bit more patriotic and quit selling out to foriegn countries!

I said it before and you apparently do not understand it but you need to find out who the rich business owners are before you make statements like that one. Who owns EXXON? Or Eli Lily? Or Northern Indiana Public Service Company?

The simple answer is "stockholders" and the vast majority of the "stockholders" are people like YOU and ME. There are really very few rich business owners in these multi-national companies. What there are are teacher's pension funds, and private 401Ks and small investor's I.R.A. and union pension plans, and mutual funds, and all those things hold "ownership" of these big companies. These "owners" demand a good rate of return. These "owners" demand that the companies are price competitive. These "owners" demand the companies make a profit. And as I stated before, WE (you and me) are "these owners".

By the way, with regard to your oil comment, even if we drill in ANWAR and offshore we do not have enough oil in the US to meet our needs. I totally support drilling in all those places but we need to import oil too.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Savage,
Let's just, for a moment, put you in the CEO chair of, say, Acme Widget factory. One of the accountants comes in and tells you that the company is losing money and the largest expense is labor. Also, in the process of making widgets, there are an a$$load of EPA regulations, emission controls, and the like to comply with. Additionally, because you employ people to build your widgets, you have to pay workers' comp premiums, plus the employees are dissatisfied because the insurance plan is costing them a small fortune every month. (ignoring as most employees probably do at most jobs the fact that the company is paying a much larger share of the insurance premium than the employee is!)

After the accountant leaves, you happen to see a story in Widgets Monthly about how XYZ Widgets moved their operations to China, cut their labor cost, cut their benefit cost, cut their environmental cost, and cut their tax costs. They have cut their prices slightly, but are now doing R&D to make a better widget. You will not be competitive if you don't do SOMEthing.

Just then, an alarm bell sounds on the production floor- "Oh crap!", you think, "Someone's hurt." and in the back of your mind somewhere, there's the realization that your insurance premiums for next year just went up.

What do you do?

Blessings,
B

 

[Bigum1969]

SavageEagle:

This seems like obviously a very emotional issue for you. I think many great points have been made by others on this forum regarding taxes, shareholders, etc. You are looking at things from purely the viewpoint of the working man -- or should I say -- a pissed off working man with many examples of mistreatment, poor wages, etc.

To fully and objectively look at the issue, you've got to be able to see things from the perspective of the "evil and greedy" business owners as well. If we could all spend a day in each other's shoes it would be very enlightening.

Economics can't be solved by a Robinhood mentality. Stealing from the rich to supply the poor would eventually lead to everyone being poor.

And, Melensdad is correct. If you don't already have retirement money in mutual funds -- you probably will (or should). Then you will look at those evil companies and their profitability a different way.

 

[flagtag]

SavageEagle:

This seems like obviously a very emotional issue for you. I think many great points have been made by others on this forum regarding taxes, shareholders, etc. You are looking at things from purely the viewpoint of the working man -- or should I say -- a pissed off working man with many examples of mistreatment, poor wages, etc.

To fully and objectively look at the issue, you've got to be able to see things from the perspective of the "evil and greedy" business owners as well. If we could all spend a day in each other's shoes it would be very enlightening.

Economics can't be solved by a Robinhood mentality. Stealing from the rich to supply the poor would eventually lead to everyone being poor.

And, Melensdad is correct. If you don't already have retirement money in mutual funds -- you probably will (or should). Then you will look at those evil companies and their profitability a different way.

What is the guarantee that the retirement money will still be there when it's time to collect? (Think back a couple years)
Making a profit is expected, and, of course encouraged. But when the "profit margin" makes it to the "obscene" level, while many wages are being frozen or even cut, then what? (We all know, I'm sure that "profit" comes AFTER all "bills" are paid - which includes wages.)

 

[Lars]

What is the guarantee that the retirement money will still be there when it's time to collect? (Think back a couple years)
Making a profit is expected, and, of course encouraged. But when the "profit margin" makes it to the "obscene" level, while many wages are being frozen or even cut, then what? (We all know, I'm sure that "profit" comes AFTER all "bills" are paid - which includes wages.)

and "Windfall profit taxes, sales taxes, income taxes, property taxes, capital gains taxes, social security taxes x2, medicare taxes, medicaid taxes,............."