Bernie Sanders

[Alpo]

Exactly. I have a good friend who has a long history in France. One day, we stood on the Place de la Concorde, in front of the Crillon Hotel (which was one of his great grandmother's home in a prior time). He showed me the exact spot where Marie Antoinette lost her head.

I come from a prior generation where we paid much higher taxes, and we b*tched about it. People always complain about taxes and the wasteful spending by everyone, whether it's a government or a competing department in your company. But we had a middle class then. People made a pretty good living and your spouse didn't have to work to just pay the bills.

Times seem to be different now. And, frankly, I can't understand some of the attitudes. I certainly felt more in common with my neighbors regardless of their faith or politics than I do with some of the people on a gun forum. Why is that? Perhaps that's just the internet. Everyone allowing their worst side to show through in a non-physical, non-threatening medium.

In any event, I think Bernie is a pretty good egg, no matter how you choose to shortcut his service to this country with a one word trope.

 

[Alpo]

Sigh. A dollar earned by a hedge fund manager is worth one dollar. A dollar earned by a ditch digger? Yep. One dollar. Granted, that dollar is much more valuable to a ditch digger because it took him much longer to earn it.

But to you? It's not your dollar to spend. It has no value for you, except what the guy puts back into the economy, and pays in taxes. And the hedge fund guy puts a **** ton more into both. As for the morality of it, I can't assign moral value to money. Money is worth its face value. I can assign moral value to behavior. At least we probably both agree that immoral behavior has a cost.

I'm astonished about your views on inheritance tax. So the government should confiscate some inheritance just in case the dead person would have donated it to charity. WTF? Bernie Sanders? Are you Bernie Sanders?



There's a huge difference between providing a few core common services and saying that everyone has a right to "free" health care. And if you think that what we have here is socialism lite, you surely believe what Scandinavian countries have and what Bernie Sanders wants is much more than our socialism-lite.

We've "compromised" our way to this much socialism and $18 trillion in debt. I think we've had a bit too much all ready.

I guess we have to go back to Econ 101. A hedge fund manager does NOT put a ton of money back into the economy. Do you know how GDP/GNP is calculated? Investment in secondary trading after an offering does not add to GNP.

I also am somewhat astonished at your astonishment on inheritance taxes. Are you so wealthy that this is a personal issue? Or is this a philosophical question? If the first, then I suggest you seek tax counsel if you haven't already. If the latter, I think you need to reread Adam Smith. You've only picked out the morsels that agree with your fixed ideas. He said so much more that people miss or forget.

 

[Ericpwp]

Inheritance tax is the talk of people so green with envy they could be mistaken for martians. So weak, they have to bully dead people. It is not yours, get over it. The money was taxed when it was earned. If heirs will squander it, there will be plenty of people that will make that money, but that is the wish of the earner. Other people's hard earned fortunes are the focus of the left's circle jerk. The goal being nothing to work towards, so you'll be happy with what you are given. The jealousy is sickening.

 

[Designer99]

We've "compromised" our way to this much socialism and $18 trillion in debt. I think we've had a bit too much all ready.

How much of that $18 trillion debt do you think we could we eat into if we had a bit of corporate welfare reform?

 

[Ericpwp]

None, that would be spent too, and then some.

 

[Alpo]

Inheritance tax is the talk of people so green with envy they could be mistaken for martians. So weak, they have to bully dead people. It is not yours, get over it. The money was taxed when it was earned. If heirs will squander it, there will be plenty of people that will make that money, but that is the wish of the earner. Other people's hard earned fortunes are the focus of the left's circle jerk. The goal being nothing to work towards, so you'll be happy with what you are given. The jealousy is sickening.

You must have skipped the part about not wanting to establish a ruling class.

Remember that discussion a few guys had back in the late 1700's?

 

[Ericpwp]

Were you talking about George Soros? It's hard to hear you from way up there.

 

[MisterChester]

How much of that $18 trillion debt do you think we could we eat into if we had a bit of corporate welfare reform?

View attachment 39886

If the American people were helped by the government as much as the government throws money at corporations, there would be a Ferrari in every garage.

 

[BugI02]

Exactly. I have a good friend who has a long history in France. One day, we stood on the Place de la Concorde, in front of the Crillon Hotel (which was one of his great grandmother's home in a prior time). He showed me the exact spot where Marie Antoinette lost her head.

I come from a prior generation where we paid much higher taxes, and we b*tched about it. People always complain about taxes and the wasteful spending by everyone, whether it's a government or a competing department in your company. But we had a middle class then. People made a pretty good living and your spouse didn't have to work to just pay the bills.

Times seem to be different now. And, frankly, I can't understand some of the attitudes. I certainly felt more in common with my neighbors regardless of their faith or politics than I do with some of the people on a gun forum. Why is that? Perhaps that's just the internet. Everyone allowing their worst side to show through in a non-physical, non-threatening medium.

In any event, I think Bernie is a pretty good egg, no matter how you choose to shortcut his service to this country with a one word trope.

A small quibble on wording, Alpo. I reserve the phrase 'service to this country' to mean a very specific thing, and Mr Sanders did not serve.

 

[cobber]

How much of that $18 trillion debt do you think we could we eat into if we had a bit of corporate welfare reform?

View attachment 39886

None, that would be spent too, and then some.

That's a safe bet.


Let's just cut to the chase. You are not entitled to the fruits of your labors. All wealth is to be delivered to the government, which will apportion to you that amount it believes you deserve. Next up, all private property.


Equality of outcomes in all things is only fair.

You must have skipped the part about not wanting to establish a ruling class.

Remember that discussion a few guys had back in the late 1700's?

You mean the ruling class that sits ensconced inside the Beltway and secretes rules and regulations on all aspects of American life, or undoes traditions by judicial fiat?

That ruling class?


Or maybe George Soros, Mike Bloomberg and Bill Gates? Yeah. Let them lead the way toward fairness. The rest of us can follow their example...

Or this one?
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog...a_high_speed_rail_contract.html#ixzz3UwxjvqPn

 

[RockofStrength]

You must have skipped the part about not wanting to establish a ruling class.

Remember that discussion a few guys had back in the late 1700's?

And unfortunately for Mr Smith and many of the founders, they have no right to the money. To create laws that steal rightfully earned wealth intended for the care and enrichment of the deceased's friends and family is not morally supportable. A good end (preventing a perpetually rich ruling class) is not sufficient to overcome the right to personal property and the ability to endow it as one sees fit.

And that's setting aside the fact that it patently has not worked, or else I wouldn't be seeing a potential Bush 3.0 and Clinton 2.0 supported by Gates, Soros, and various other bankers and trust funds that have been around since the early 1900's or before.

"A good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children" Proverbs 13:22a

The Founders cannot pick and choose either, and to use God-given rights as justification for rebellion and the setting up of their future government while also denying clearly stated Biblical principles is ​picking and choosing.

 

[RockofStrength]

. double post

 

[findingZzero]

Tellyadatroot, Idon'tunderstanditmyself......(say it really fast)

 

[Alpo]

And unfortunately for Mr Smith and many of the founders, they have no right to the money. To create laws that steal rightfully earned wealth intended for the care and enrichment of the deceased's friends and family is not morally supportable. A good end (preventing a perpetually rich ruling class) is not sufficient to overcome the right to personal property and the ability to endow it as one sees fit.

And that's setting aside the fact that it patently has not worked, or else I wouldn't be seeing a potential Bush 3.0 and Clinton 2.0 supported by Gates, Soros, and various other bankers and trust funds that have been around since the early 1900's or before.

"A good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children" Proverbs 13:22a

The Founders cannot pick and choose either, and to use God-given rights as justification for rebellion and the setting up of their future government while also denying clearly stated Biblical principles is ​picking and choosing.

Don't go quoting the Bible AT someone. Most of the people that do are very unlike Christ.

As to whether the government can assess taxes against wealth, one only has to look at property taxes. If you own property, you do not need an income for some official to come forward and charge you for services that you may not require or education for kids you do not have.

And just so everyone understands, the first $5.4 million of your estate is free from inheritance tax. The remainder has a 40% tax rate. So, while it is confiscatory, it isn't all wealth. If you are one of those with wealth above $5.4 million, congratulations. Please find something better to do with your time than respond to threads on Bernie Sanders.

If you don't have $5.4 million, well you certainly know how to make much ado about nothing. You repeatedly say you are not your brothers keeper, but you certainly worry about his wealth more than you should.

 

[Alpo]

A small quibble on wording, Alpo. I reserve the phrase 'service to this country' to mean a very specific thing, and Mr Sanders did not serve.

Yeah. I hear ya. But there was a time when working for the government in most capacities was a vocation that caused you to sacrifice a great deal of income. That was, until the GOP destroyed the middle class with trickle down economics.

 

[jamil]

How much of that $18 trillion debt do you think we could we eat into if we had a bit of corporate welfare reform?

View attachment 39886

Let's do it. Cut that damn cord. I'm right there with you. I hate crony capitalism. I hate large corporations conspiring with government to manufacture markets for them.

ACA is one ginormous corporate welfare scheme. Imagine government penalizing anyone who doesn't buy your product. Imagine government subsidizing the people who can't afford your product.

Imagine where "green" would be if it weren't for corporate welfare. Tesla wouldn't be the only bankrupt "green" company.

Imagine how much less military spending would be if it weren't for crony capitalism.

Transportation, education, sure, cut the corporate welfare out of those and their budgets would shrink drastically.

Banking and finance, absolutely, let's get crony capitalism out of that. Let's get big money out of ALL government.

If the American people were helped by the government as much as the government throws money at corporations, there would be a Ferrari in every garage.

I would much rather keep the portion of my money that helps pay for crony capitalism. I certainly don't want to help pay to give everyone a right to a Ferrari.

Which brings up a major difference between the kind of "socialism" America has practiced up until recent decades, and the socialism Sanders and lefties pine for.

Sure, having a police force is a sort of social, collective service. But any scaled society has those kinds of services. They also have standing military.That doesn't make all nations who have them socialist. And that's not the same thing as making positive rights out of everything "society" wants.

You don't have a right to birth control. You should pay for that yourself. You don't have a right to health care. It's not other people's responsibility to keep you healthy. It's yours. You certainly don't have a right to make me pay for a sex change operation. Oh, wait, that's "gender assignment therapy".

 

[jamil]

Yeah. I hear ya. But there was a time when working for the government in most capacities was a vocation that caused you to sacrifice a great deal of income. That was, until the GOP destroyed the middle class with trickle down economics.

That's not what destroyed the middle class.

 

[Alpo]

Welcome to planet jamil. Looks like you've constructed your own utopia.

Unfortunately, you will wake up and still be here with the rest of us after your daydream is over.

 

[Leadeye]

Inheritance tax is the talk of people so green with envy they could be mistaken for martians. So weak, they have to bully dead people. It is not yours, get over it. The money was taxed when it was earned. If heirs will squander it, there will be plenty of people that will make that money, but that is the wish of the earner. Other people's hard earned fortunes are the focus of the left's circle jerk. The goal being nothing to work towards, so you'll be happy with what you are given. The jealousy is sickening.

I'm offended by your Martian slurs and feel discriminated against, haul down your earth flag.

 

[Alpo]

That's not what destroyed the middle class.

My keyboard. My writing. Don't like it, refute it. Facts please.