BFG 358-1.8" Offering?

[sparkomatic]

FireBall,

Is the timing for your 1.8" version still looking like after the first of the year? Hoping to use the downtime between deer/waterfowl season and turkey season to play with the new toy. Just curious here in the south end of the state.

 

[Skip]

Just Hunt in Wabash has revealed theirs. i haven't seen it yet but it is a worked over 300WSM, I think.

 

[sparkomatic]

I knew there are others out as well all based one way or another on the WSM vs. WSSM. I currently have the BFG 1.625" in the Encore. Looking to set up a bolt gun next on the 1.8" version. Have been super pleased with the BFG and all help Bryan has been. Great to deal with in every way. No matter who's 358 you shoot its great to see and hear all the info and stories that folks are putting out.

spark

 

[fireball168]

Is the timing for your 1.8" version still looking like after the first of the year?

Should have bolt rifle barrels in inventory in February/March.

I've been working up brass between WSSM runs for testing and to get the process down for production.

I'm on the fence if this cartridge is suitable for the Encore, need more trigger time on that platform to measure frame stretch.

Just Hunt in Wabash has revealed theirs. i haven't seen it yet but it is a worked over 300WSM, I think.

It is good to know I can count on you to consistently hawk someone else's product.

I guess I need to dig through your emails I and figure out exactly what I did to make you this way.

 

[Skip]

Bryan,
I am NOT hawking anyone else's product. I am just telling folks about the option I chose. Since this is an open forum, and I thought we could still choose from what was available to the public, options are a good thing, I think.

I guess a return question for you would be: "Why do you act like you OWN every .358 cartridge out there?"

You have the BFG, okay, but, that is not the only cartridge available, and for folks that can make a choice, an informed choice would seem to be a good thing.

My emails were asking about your cartridge and the differences between it and others or trying to discuss loads that I was developing. All I got from you was: "I'm not helping you because you have a "generic" product."

There are other options is all that I am trying to say. Folks need to know that there are other games in town. It makes the market more friendly.

You haven't offended me at all. Just an open market would seem to be a better thing for us consumers.

 

[jghelton]

i did talk to paul at just hunt and he is willing to ream your existing 358 to the new oal as well

 

[Skip]

Well, I have the reloading dies for the .358/25 WSSM so, I am sticking with it. Paul and I talked the other day about the new round and we kind of agree that you aren't going to gain much by the added .200" in performance.

Once you deliver a 225gr Nosler Accubond @ 2500fps with 3121ft/lbs of energy into a sub MOA (less than 1" @ 100 yards) what more can you do to a deer to take one down? If say, 3 shots, over 9000ft/lbs of energy, into a group that size, what more can be done?

With the .421 BC of the Nosler, you can get flatter trajectories and harder hitting further out. Really good!

 

[fireball168]

I guess a return question for you would be: "Why do you act like you OWN every .358 cartridge out there?"

You have the BFG, okay, but, that is not the only cartridge available....

I have several BFG cartridges that I have designed and "own" in their entirety.

The best I call tell, you've got about 3 months experience with the 358 WSSM of some flavor.

My emails were asking about your cartridge and the differences between it and others or trying to discuss loads that I was developing.

All I got from you was: "I'm not helping you because you have a "generic" product."

Let me remind you of our email correspondence:

Skip
email =skip_b****@fr******.com
phone = 574-***-1*7*
comments = 358 BFG loads. Can you share? I want to run some ballistics through my software and need powders and loads. I want to see the full range. 158gr to 250gr. Thanks. Am looking seriously at getting one of these barrels for my Encore.Going to the Indy 1500 this coming weekend. Will you be there? Have a good day and Thanks in advance!


Skip,

I've got a list of my own loads and those fed back from my customers on the 358 BFG, I share them with my customers.

If you're looking for comparison velocities, I suggest looking at the 358 Winchester - it is the closest approximation for reasonable loads on the WSSM case.

Wish I had enough inventory to setup at the 1500, but I don't this year - I've completely underestimated the sales for the year.

Let me know if I can be of assistance,

Bryan

End quote.


I assist folks with their "generic" products every day. What I will not do is supply loading data for an "unknown" chamber.

 

[Skip]

I've always been more than happy to assist customers that bought generic products in determining what their chambers are, what their neck diameter and brass neck thickness needs to be, what their throat length is, and then matching up a set of generic 358/25 WSSM dies to work the best with their combination.

One thing I will not assist with is providing any sort of loading data for generic products.

And, you are exactly correct. The last is a post from a thread here on the forum. You seem consistent enough, no doubt about that. No help loads to those that have a generic chamber unless they are your customers.

Okay, got it. Seems like what I had already said in this thread though. Doesn't it.

And, I have no desire to have an argument with you on this minute point in the whole discussion of the .358/25WSSM

My point of view is that in order for it to become a main stream cartridge is to involve as many folks as possible at every level of the discussion/testing/reloading/data.

 

[mwilson]

i did not buy my barrel from fireball. it was a generic barrel from someone else. the neck diameter was a little different from fireballs. he was more than helpfull to me in getting the brass correct for my chamber. maybe its all in the way you treat someone

 

[Skip]

The last thing that I want to point out about this subject, you took offense to me bringing up that someone else had a similar product. Then, you took informaiton that was sent through a website that was suppose to be private and posted a majority of that information on a public forum.

I just wonder if you had gotten mad or offended enough if you would have just went ahead and posted ALL of my information!

 

[sparkomatic]

Thanks for the info Fireball, will check back with you after the first of the year to make sure everything is still on track for Feb/Mar.

spark

 

[Broom_jm]

A good friend of mine named Vern, from down in Texas, asked me a couple of years ago about various 35 caliber 'cats. I sent him to Bryan and within about 2 weeks, Vern had a 358BFG and he's been grinnin' like a fool over it, ever since. I've corresponded directly with Bryan on a variety of cartridges and even though I do not (yet) own one of his creations, he shared information quite freely. He'd be a fool to suggest load recipes for a cartridge that is different from the ones he chambers, for simple liability reasons. Frankly, anybody who goes around the Internet looking for wildcat load recipes probably doesn't have the experience to be working with a true 'cat. Years at the bench, some good software, and a whole lot of common sense will serve you better than what some guy on blowyerselfup.com tells you to load.

I'm thinking the 358-1.8" will be like a 35 Whelen, where the 1.625" version was like a 358 Winchester. Both are plenty of gun for deer, that's for certain! Load either with the new 180gr Barnes TTSX and you've got 300 yards of drop-em-right-now! I'm more interested in what you might call 35 caliber "mildcats", that meet the new 1.8" limit. Stuff like a full-length 357 Herrett, or shortened standard rounds, like the 35 Remmy or 358 Win.

Fortunately, Bryan is all over THOSE cartridges, as well. For all the haters out there, keep in mind that competition might drive down prices, but without innovative entrepreneurs taking the risk and spending the money, all of these cool 'cats would be nothing more than wishful thinking for us gun nuts.

Bryan, if you're going to be testing shortened 35 Remington cartridges for form, fit and function, I would be glad to offer some 180gr SSP and 200gr FTX bullets, as a way of contributing to the cause. Send me a PM if you're interested.

Jason

 

[sparkomatic]

Years at the bench, some good software, and a whole lot of common sense will serve you better than what some guy on blowyerselfup.com tells you to load.

My thoughts exactly. I load for my 358BFG and a friend's. We use each one a little different. My shots are typically 150yds and less while his are out to 300. We also shoot a little different load than most who post. We shoot the Sierra 225gr GK over X-terminator powder. We've shot the Hornady's, Accubonds and Barnes over just about every powder made. All from suggestions of others who shoot 358's. Bottom line is there will always be a bullet/powder combination that works best in each gun. What we find on the net can only get you close, you still gotta work it out on the loading bench & range. No substitute for trigger time.

Spark

 

[42769vette]

A good friend of mine named Vern, from down in Texas, asked me a couple of years ago about various 35 caliber 'cats. I sent him to Bryan and within about 2 weeks, Vern had a 358BFG and he's been grinnin' like a fool over it, ever since. I've corresponded directly with Bryan on a variety of cartridges and even though I do not (yet) own one of his creations, he shared information quite freely. He'd be a fool to suggest load recipes for a cartridge that is different from the ones he chambers, for simple liability reasons. Frankly, anybody who goes around the Internet looking for wildcat load recipes probably doesn't have the experience to be working with a true 'cat. Years at the bench, some good software, and a whole lot of common sense will serve you better than what some guy on blowyerselfup.com tells you to load.

I'm thinking the 358-1.8" will be like a 35 Whelen, where the 1.625" version was like a 358 Winchester. Both are plenty of gun for deer, that's for certain! Load either with the new 180gr Barnes TTSX and you've got 300 yards of drop-em-right-now! I'm more interested in what you might call 35 caliber "mildcats", that meet the new 1.8" limit. Stuff like a full-length 357 Herrett, or shortened standard rounds, like the 35 Remmy or 358 Win.

Fortunately, Bryan is all over THOSE cartridges, as well. For all the haters out there, keep in mind that competition might drive down prices, but without innovative entrepreneurs taking the risk and spending the money, all of these cool 'cats would be nothing more than wishful thinking for us gun nuts.

Bryan, if you're going to be testing shortened 35 Remington cartridges for form, fit and function, I would be glad to offer some 180gr SSP and 200gr FTX bullets, as a way of contributing to the cause. Send me a PM if you're interested.

Jason

when did barnes come out with a 180 gr 358 bullet? where did you buy them?

 

[fireball168]

Barnes Bullets - 35 CAL .358" 180 GR TTSX FB

 

[Skip]

"Hey spike, can I come on the porch? Huh, spike. Please spike, huh?"

Listen, when someone sends an email to a professed "professional" about a load, that doesn't mean that is their only source. I have been working very closely with Hodgdon Tech Support, a Mr. Mike Daly (call them, he will verify), all along this journey.

He has been more than helpful with loads, not that he gave me any as I was bouncing data off of them, and interpreting what I was seeing. Two eyes on a project are always better than one.

Now, I have loads, that I developed for my firearm with 180gr XTP's to their Interloks up to 200gr. I used a military surplus powder to get there for most of the loads and that kept the costs down. The 180gr Interlok @ 2626fps should get it done for anything the same weight bullet does in a .30/06. In fact, at closer ranges, with it's slightly higher cross section, it will perform better on game.

The load I am most proud of though is the one I developed for the Nosler 225gr Accubond. Driving that bullet to 2550fps coupled with its .421BC gives me all the MOA I want, sub, to be exact.

And, with all of the loads I have developed, there has been no case head expansion, none, nada.


My MGM "generic" chamber and 1:14" twist like those heavy little missiles. While I have neither done a chamber cast nor had any case failures, save one that I messed up while loading, there have been no flattened primers nor sticky extraction from any of my loads.

I just thought that someone that was promoting the caliber was doing it for the "sport" or the "uniqueness" of it. Now I see that there are far different reasons behind it.


That's fine. Everyone has to make a living somehow.


If anyone would like to know what my loads are, and promises not to sue for using them if something you do wrong causes problems, pm me.


Glad to share!

 

[42769vette]

Barnes Bullets - 35 CAL .358" 180 GR TTSX FB

thanks bud, ill defintally be trying those. i usually buy my bullets from midway but they dont list the 180 as a option.

 

[Skip]

They look cool too!

And here is a 100 yard 3 shot target:

 

[Skip]

These bullets, or as our friends from the castboolits.gunloads.com forum call them, BOOLITS, will eventually find their way into a .358/25 WSSM case as well. Only they will be fueled by Trail Boss powder for squirrels and such.

I am for the development of the cartridge. I want it to become a commercially produced caliber with lots of options for folks from squirrels to moose.