Black man shot in Kenosha, riots starting all over again...

[dusty88]

Let's say he was talking . What difference does that make to a claim of self-defense? He was running away and being pursued, short of having committed some kind of felony, how does that not make it a case of self-defense?

yeah the "bad choice in going there" isn't the same as being a murderer, not even close

OTOH I think Kut is saying to be cautious about making him into a hero

 

[larcat]

This is pretty graphic but very clearly shows that at least one of the two in the second shooting had a handgun. The other guy had just hit him in the head with the skateboard.

https://mobile.twitter.com/firstcitizensam/status/1299087825854316549

I didn't see where the article said that the guy he shot had a gun. It really doesn't look that way in the video, although someone else further back definitely fired a shot.

But did anyone else see the long poles that the people chasing him were carrying? I've seen that clip several times and never noticed this before. They're hard to spot, but 2 of the people chasing him were carrying very long pole-like objects, around 5-6 feet long. These 2 guys went left when Rittenhouse and the guy he shot went right, as if to close off his escape from the parking lot. When the shots were fired, they run across the street - still with the poles, towards the camera. A few seconds later you hear several metallic "clanging" noises...metal pipes or flag poles that they dropped after the shooting?

 

[dusty88]

This is pretty graphic but very clearly shows that at least one of the two in the second shooting had a handgun. The other guy had just hit him in the head with the skateboard.

https://mobile.twitter.com/firstcitizensam/status/1299087825854316549

Yes, I think it's pretty clear that the second incident included guys coming at him, including 1 with a pistol. The question more debatable is what happened before the first shooting.

 

[BroodXI]

I agree that whatever started the altercation is unknown, but I'm not sure how relevant it should be.

The way it looks is that the attackers were trying to kill Rittenhouse. The only way they could be justified in doing so is to be in fear for their lives, and it didn't appear that they were to me.
Rittenhouse on the other hand did appear to be fearful. Hopefully all of the facts needed will come out in the investigation.

https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.html?caseNo=2020CF000983&countyNo=30&index=0&mode=details

https://www.mystateline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2020/08/Rittenhouse.pdf

 

[injb]

This is pretty graphic but very clearly shows that at least one of the two in the second shooting had a handgun. The other guy had just hit him in the head with the skateboard.

https://mobile.twitter.com/firstcitizensam/status/1299087825854316549

Yes but the post I was responding to said that the first guy shot was chasing him "with a gun". That doesn't appear to be true, although it does look like some of the other people in the chase had weapons - at least one gun, and then there's a pole objects that no one has mentioned.

Also not mentioned anywhere (that I've seen) is that in the video where the red shirt guy (first guy shot) is seen in a confrontation with the miltia guys, the skateboard guy is also there! At least I'm 90% sure it's him:

Here's a few frames showing what the pursuers were carrying:





And this guy's clothes, hat and mask match the skateboard guy as best I can tell:





So if that's him, then these 2 guys were clearly looking for a confrontation earlier in the night.

 

[larcat]

Ah, gotcha. The NYT video breakdown is the best info on the first shooting that I know of but other than identifying that at least on chaser had a handgun and fired it during the chase, it doesn't shed that much light.

Yes but the post I was responding to said that the first guy shot was chasing him "with a gun". That doesn't appear to be true, although it does look like some of the other people in the chase had weapons - at least one gun, and then there's a pole objects that no one has mentioned.

Also not mentioned anywhere (that I've seen) is that in the video where the red shirt guy (first guy shot) is seen in a confrontation with the miltia guys, the skateboard guy is also there! At least I'm 90% sure it's him:

Here's a few frames showing what the pursuers were carrying:

View attachment 90520

View attachment 90521

And this guy's clothes, hat and mask match the skateboard guy as best I can tell:

View attachment 90522

View attachment 90523

So if that's him, then these 2 guys were clearly looking for a confrontation earlier in the night.

 

[semperfi211]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...G9TWFMDyRFj83SjWGIvEd8uQqMHFNn67bzXINyKl1uJ_o

Different fundraising sights keep taking his fundraising for his defense down.

 

[ghuns]

...Also not mentioned anywhere (that I've seen) is that in the video where the red shirt guy (first guy shot) is seen in a confrontation with the miltia guys, the skateboard guy is also there! At least I'm 90% sure it's him...

Another tidbit not mentioned, where is Rittenhouse when red shirt guy is all, "shoot me, n***a"?

I don't think we see him until he's being chased by red shirt guy.

I thought I saw him, but it's a different dude in a similar colored shirt, but wearing shorts. He gets pulled back and gets a stern talking to by one of the other AR toters when he seems to get a little irritated by red shirt guy.

I wonder if red shirt guy chased Rittenhouse thinking it was the other dude in the green shirt.

 

[2A_Tom]

https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/322444252180383/?extid=U83i8ueBthH0nr2Y&d=null&vh=e

 

[ditcherman]

Yes but the post I was responding to said that the first guy shot was chasing him "with a gun". That doesn't appear to be true, although it does look like some of the other people in the chase had weapons - at least one gun, and then there's a pole objects that no one has mentioned.

Also not mentioned anywhere (that I've seen) is that in the video where the red shirt guy (first guy shot) is seen in a confrontation with the miltia guys, the skateboard guy is also there! At least I'm 90% sure it's him:

:CLIP:



So if that's him, then these 2 guys were clearly looking for a confrontation earlier in the night.

Post 285 is a youtube video compilation of events. Red shirt guy 1st confrontation starts about 40 seconds in. I'll bump it.

I'd recommend viewing for those late to the thread, watch it soon may get taken down.

 

[ditcherman]

Timeline of events
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl9g78_ql2M&t

Bumping this up because it's pretty good compilation.

 

[larcat]

Repost of the NYT breakdown:
https://mobile.twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1298839097923063809

 

[ditcherman]

Another tidbit not mentioned, where is Rittenhouse when red shirt guy is all, "shoot me, n***a"?

I don't think we see him until he's being chased by red shirt guy.

I thought I saw him, but it's a different dude in a similar colored shirt, but wearing shorts. He gets pulled back and gets a stern talking to by one of the other AR toters when he seems to get a little irritated by red shirt guy.

I wonder if red shirt guy chased Rittenhouse thinking it was the other dude in the green shirt.

Good catch, I thought the same.
I'd bet he was around, though.

On another note, I'd hope that if I made the choice to go in there with a group that we'd back each other up a little more.

 

[RobertTheBruce]

https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.html?caseNo=2020CF000983&countyNo=30&index=0&mode=details

https://www.mystateline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2020/08/Rittenhouse.pdf

This is very important.

Detective Cepress interviewed McGinnis and indicates the following: Before the shooting,McGinnis was interviewing the defendant. The defendant told McGinnis that he was a trainedmedic. McGinnis stated that he (McGinnis) has handled many ARs and that the defendant was nothandling the weapon very well. McGinnis said that as they were walking south another armed malewho appeared to be in his 30s joined them and said he was there to protect the defendant.McGinnis stated that before the defendant reached the parking lot and ran across it, the defendanthad moved from the middle of Sheridan Road to the sidewalk and that is when McGinnis saw amale (Rosenbaum) initially try to engage the defendant. McGinnis stated that as the defendantwas walking Rosenbaum was trying to get closer to the defendant. When Rosenbaum advanced,the defendant did a “juke” move and started running. McGinnis stated that there were other peoplethat were moving very quickly. McGinnis stated that they were moving towards the defendant.McGinnis said that according to what he saw the defendant was trying to evade these individuals.McGinnis described the point where the defendant had reached the car. McGinnis described thatthe defendant had the gun in a low ready position. Meaning that he had the gun raised but pointeddownward. The butt of the gun would have been at an angle downwards from the shoulder.McGinnis stated that the defendant brought the gun up. McGinnis stated that he stepped back andCase 2020CF000983 Document 2 Filed 08-27-2020Page 3 of 5he thinks the defendant fired 3 rounds in rapid succession. McGinnis said when the first roundwent off, he thought it hit the pavement. McGinnis felt something on his leg and his first thoughtwas wondering whether he had gotten shot. McGinnis was behind and slightly to the right ofRosenbaum, in the line of fire, when the defendant shot.

 

[BroodXI]

It all happened within a block and a half, they were all there at the same time.

 

[BigRed]

https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/322444252180383/?extid=U83i8ueBthH0nr2Y&d=null&vh=e

What a piece of ****....

 

[injb]

Good catch, I thought the same.
I'd bet he was around, though.

On another note, I'd hope that if I made the choice to go in there with a group that we'd back each other up a little more.

Not sure if you saw, but there's another video (I posted a few pages back) that shows Rittenhouse trying to return (alone) to the rest of his group, and being prevented by the police. He gives up and goes back the way he came. Around 5-6 minutes later the first shooting happens (you can hear the shots).

In the video that shows red shirt guy/skateboard guy confronting the militia, it's clear that red shirt guy is accusing someone of pointing a gun at him. It looks like it could be the guy with the similar colored shirt to Rittenhouse. So I wouldn't be surprised if ghuns theory is right - red shirt guy found Rittenhouse wandering on his own, separated from the group, and thought he was the same guy that pointed the gun at him.

 

[Jaybird1980]

https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.html?caseNo=2020CF000983&countyNo=30&index=0&mode=details

https://www.mystateline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2020/08/Rittenhouse.pdf

Overzealous DA

I think those statements make a pretty strong self defense case.

Edit: I'm also curious what LEO think of these statements, if they have experience with cases of this nature, and how they turned out?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Overzealous DA

I think those statements make a pretty strong self defense case.

Edit: I'm also curious what LEO think of these statements, if they have experience with cases of this nature, and how they turned out?

I'm not so sure. I say that because; concerning Rosenbaum, some keywords I was expecting are missing (ie assault, attacked, placed in fear). I'll have to look at the video again, but essentially it seems like the narrative is saying that Rosenbaum pursued the kid, but there not anything articulated which indicated that deadly force was warranted.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I'm not so sure. I say that because; concerning Rosenbaum, some keywords I was expecting are missing (ie assault, attacked, placed in fear). I'll have to look at the video again, but essentially it seems like the narrative is saying that Rosenbaum pursued the kid, but there not anything articulated which indicated that deadly force was warranted.

Grabbing to take his rifle away?
Beating him with a skateboard?
Chasing him with a pistol?

I also don't think those statements are from Rittenhouse, but instead from other protesters.
Who are not going to mention assault, attacked, or placed in fear, unless it's happening to them.