Black Powder firearms discussion

[Delmar]

Probably true, and probably sugar based.

Looking at their MSDS, I would not use it.

Josh

The white powder I messed with making in 2009 was just Salt Peter and sugar. It does work and it does burn very clean because there is no Sulfur or Charcoal, but it is harder to ignite than BP and it takes more powder to get the same bang. The MSDS for White Hot lists Potassium Percholrate as an ingredient, which is probably how they are able to make it equivalent to BP. Still an article I read says it needs to be ignited with 209 primers rather than percussion caps which tells me your guess of being sugar based is probably right.
I personally would have no problem trying White Hot. It is made by Hogdon which is a pretty reputable company.

 

[Steelworker]

I wonder why you wouldn't want a subforum for blackpowder enthusiasts? What would be so hard or difficult about that?

 

[Delmar]

I wonder why you wouldn't want a subforum for blackpowder enthusiasts? What would be so hard or difficult about that?

More subforums give them more to manage. The will build it if we come, but if we don't generate enough interest why should they?

 

[Wabatuckian]

I wonder why you wouldn't want a subforum for blackpowder enthusiasts? What would be so hard or difficult about that?

Read Bill's original post. That's what this thread is here to determine -- whether they want to put on another forum.

Josh

 

[Dwight D]

I think it would be good to have a "muzzle-loading forum" not just limited to BP or substitutes, that way the Savage 10ML-II smokeless shooters could get in on the discussion as well.

 

[DownByTheTracks]

I sell some of the White Hots occasionally, but I've not heard any feedback about them. Seems to sell much less frequently than anything else.

 

[kingpin1779]

black powder

love the smell of black powder in the morning !!!. i would love to see black powder , would be an awesome topic.

 

[Grizhicks]

I think this is a great idea!!! I plan on shooting Cowboy this year, and will be shooting BP. Don't really have any questions/concerns right now, but I sure I will. Later, Greg

 

[Ashkelon]

Anybody know of a good historical gunsmith in the Indy area? I have an old frontier rifle in approx .38 caliber that I would like to get going again. Rifling in barrel is in great shape. Have no idea about age of gun but thinking somewhere before 1800 as converted from flintlock to cap and ball. Need somebody with knowledge as it is way out of my element. Thanks in advance.

 

[Wabatuckian]

Anybody know of a good historical gunsmith in the Indy area? I have an old frontier rifle in approx .38 caliber that I would like to get going again. Rifling in barrel is in great shape. Have no idea about age of gun but thinking somewhere before 1800 as converted from flintlock to cap and ball. Need somebody with knowledge as it is way out of my element. Thanks in advance.

Hello,

I'd be glad to take a look at it for you.

I'm not aware of any historical 'smiths in Indiana, even, but these things just are not hard to work on.

You don't even need to transfer them, so I think I should be good making this offer without an FFL.

I am about 2 hours north of you, however. If you'd like to mail it, you should be able to just... mail it.

I'll double check the laws, but I wouldn't see a problem.

PM me and we can maybe set something up.

Josh

 

[Delmar]

If you'd like to mail it, you should be able to just... mail it.



Josh

That is correct. If it doesn't fire cartridges, you can ship it yourself. In the last year and a half I have received 3 cap and ball pistols and one .50 cal inline muzzleloader. All shipped directly through the mail, right to my door step.

 

[Dwight D]

Delmar is correct as a muzzle-loader is not a firearm per the BATFE definition of a firearm. However the post office personnel often don't get that right. I ran into a problem with my local Post Master awhile back and I did the research and presented her with the Postal regs and the BATFE regs, which solved the problem on my end. However in my neck of the woods UPS is easy to ship with and no hassles.

 

[willie69]

i'm not sure what all the discussion is about but has anybody used the new tc bone collector if so what do you think

 

[Wabatuckian]

but has anybody used the new tc bone collector if so what do you think

I've not used it and honestly don't use inlines, preferring the classic lines of traditional styling.

However, I'm sitting here looking at the spec's and could give you an edumicated guess on what it does.

The question is, how far are you wanting to shoot with a muzzleloader? List your specific goals and I'll try to get you into a muzzleloader that will work for you.

1. Performance -- what is your usual maximum range for hunting?

2. Terminal Performance -- what kind of "thump" do you require?

3. Maintenance -- Are you willing to dedicate time to cleaning the barrel? All black powder and most substitutes are corrosive and highly hygroscopic, meaning that, regardless of what you choose to use, you'll need to clean right away after firing.

4. Accuracy -- what are your perceived accuracy needs?

5. Looks and ergonomics -- are you more attracted to traditional lines, but like modern performance? One size does not fit all.

Believe it or not, the traditional lead round ball is more lethal on a single target than is pretty much anything conical I've seen. Imagine a .50 caliber round ball traveling at 1700fps and slamming into a deer, expanding to 2 to 2.5x its original diameter, and stopping on the far side: In other words, with a round lead ball, the energy of a higher-powered rifle is deposited in a wound channel the length of a handgun's wound channel.

However, the very thing that gives this thumping power is also the thing that limits range to 100, 125yds max: A sphere sucks with regard to ballistic coefficient. The BC of a sphere is largely dependent upon its speed, but one can estimate it using about .06. Suffice to say, the BC of a sphere is about half that of a .22 LR bullet.

Conicals were invented for war. They do not always kill well, but they certainly wound well. In .58 caliber, a Minie ball would be loaded with a weak powder charge of 60grns standard. This was done to prevent the skirt from blowing off. However, even with this weak powder charge, the Minie ball would go through three soldiers before stopping, taking all of them out of battle, whereas a round lead ball would hit a soldier, usually stop inside, and just kill him.

If a modern bullet from a muzzleloader does not expand, you've got the Minie ball all over again, only in a lesser caliber.

This is why I like to use round lead balls. As well, I almost never shoot beyond 50 yards with a muzzleloader, let alone 100 (though I'm confident in my ability out to further 125yds on deer and much further on a human adversary should it come to that with a blackpowder rifle). I have a few pure lead conicals, but honestly, I view them as a curio. I might shoot one to see what 350grns of lead feel like exiting a .50, but I can get almost two balls for one conical if I melt 'em down and cast 'em -- and they are more lethal, from my observations and reports form others, in ball form!

However, if you want to hunt cornfields, then a conical and maybe a modern inline makes better sense, though I personally would choose a .50 caliber Hawken or .45 caliber long rifle and a modern full-caliber cast bullet -- R.E.A.L. or maybe even a modified Minie they have out -- and a heavy charge of powder.

So... what are your goals for a muzzleloader?

i'm not sure what all the discussion is about

It's to see if we could use a forum dedicated to black powder.

If I had my way, we'd have a black powder forum, with sub-fora for Traditional Muzzleloading, Modern Muzzleloading, and Blackpowder Cartridge.

Josh

 

[red_zr24x4]

Just saw this sticky and as Im thinking of getting back in the black powder scene I thought I'd look around.
went online to CVA looking for a traditional kit. All they show is the new inline stuff, CVA doesnt mak a traditional muzzle loader anymore??

 

[singlesix]

Just saw this sticky and as Im thinking of getting back in the black powder scene I thought I'd look around.
went online to CVA looking for a traditional kit. All they show is the new inline stuff, CVA doesnt mak a traditional muzzle loader anymore??

Track of the Wolf - Name Brand Gun Kits

Dixie Gun Works muzzleloading, blackpowder and rare antique gun supplies.

Two places to start for Kits and Assemblies models.

I believe Thompson Center still makes Traditional Models.

 

[red_zr24x4]

Thanks Singlesix, looked at dixie already, was trying to remember all the ones from the late 80's early 90's I used to look at.

 

[Wabatuckian]

Just saw this sticky and as Im thinking of getting back in the black powder scene I thought I'd look around.
went online to CVA looking for a traditional kit. All they show is the new inline stuff, CVA doesnt mak a traditional muzzle loader anymore??

Hello,

Traditions took over CVA's line of traditional muzzleloaders. CVA is just an importer, anyway -- I forget who actually makes them.

Anyway, same firearms:

Classic Muzzleloaders by Traditions Performance Firearms

Josh

 

[red_zr24x4]

Thanks Josh

 

[Ashkelon]

Thanks for all the replies but I think I will just take it down to Friendship and get it fixed up there. Not really into mailing a 200+ year old gun with sentimental value. I love my postman but I have no idea who is loading what on the trucks.