Brass Vs. Steel in AR-15

[SpaldingPM]

Direct quote from the study...
"As indicated by accuracy testing, the steel cased/bimetal jacketed ammunition caused accelerated wear to the inside of their respective bores. While the barrel of the Federal carbine had plenty of life left, even after 10,000 rounds at extremely high rates of fire, the Wolf and Brown Bear barrels were subjected to the same rates of fire and were completely “shot out” by 6,000 rounds.

At the end of the test, the chrome lining of the Wolf and Brown Bear barrels was almost gone from the throat forward, and the barrels had effectively become smoothbores, with the rifling near the muzzles acting only as a mild suggestion on the projectiles. A throat erosion gauge could be dropped into the bore from the muzzle end with absolutely no resistance."

 

[dhamby]

I ussually shoot a mag full of brass out of a new barrel for break in and then generally all steel after. Have never had a single issue.

 

[Tanfodude]

Direct quote from the study...
"As indicated by accuracy testing, the steel cased/bimetal jacketed ammunition caused accelerated wear to the inside of their respective bores. While the barrel of the Federal carbine had plenty of life left, even after 10,000 rounds at extremely high rates of fire, the Wolf and Brown Bear barrels were subjected to the same rates of fire and were completely “shot out” by 6,000 rounds.

At the end of the test, the chrome lining of the Wolf and Brown Bear barrels was almost gone from the throat forward, and the barrels had effectively become smoothbores, with the rifling near the muzzles acting only as a mild suggestion on the projectiles. A throat erosion gauge could be dropped into the bore from the muzzle end with absolutely no resistance."

That's what I said, depending how you're shooting them. On that test, I seriously doubt that a recreational shooter would encounter such problem. On that test, at the rate and time they're firing, then yes, it'll have that effect.

But to say that it is totally bad to use steel case on an AR, I mean come on. Those who say that they're really bad are probably shooting 5K rounds in span of minutes. Not everyone has that extra dough to flush, but if they do, good for them.

This is from a guy with DI, carbine length gas system with stock carbine buffer and buffer spring.

 

[SpaldingPM]

That's what I said, depending how you're shooting them. On that test, I seriously doubt that a recreational shooter would encounter such problem. On that test, at the rate and time they're firing, then yes, it'll have that effect.

But to say that it is totally bad to use steel case on an AR, I mean come on. Those who say that they're really bad are probably shooting 5K rounds in span of minutes. Not everyone has that extra dough to flush, but if they do, good for them.

This is from a guy with DI, carbine length gas system with stock carbine buffer and buffer spring.

I don't think you're getting what all I've said...?
I mentioned through this whole thread how steel is all I personally use, how any small negatives of using it, far outweigh paying for brass. I'm just going off facts that have been proven not only in this study but a few others I've seen. Its a fact that steel is more harsh on the contact area of the AR15, especially when its rubbing at 2800fps 5000x. No matter how you choose to shoot... whether its 5000x in 1hr or 5000x in 10yrs... you compare that side to side to a barrel you've shot a softer copper jacketed projectile in, the barrel that used steel will be more worn.

No one ever said steel is bad though. I don't know where you're getting that? Why would I say steel is bad when I shoot it?

 

[Tanfodude]

I don't think you're getting what all I've said...?
I mentioned through this whole thread how steel is all I personally use, how any small negatives of using it, far outweigh paying for brass. I'm just going off facts that have been proven not only in this study but a few others I've seen. Its a fact that steel is more harsh on the contact area of the AR15, especially when its rubbing at 2800fps 5000x. No matter how you choose to shoot... whether its 5000x in 1hr or 5000x in 10yrs... you compare that side to side to a barrel you've shot a softer copper jacketed projectile in, the barrel that used steel will be more worn.

No one ever said steel is bad though. I don't know where you're getting that? Why would I say steel is bad when I shoot it?

My bad, I apologize, on the 2nd paragraph, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to those people who were saying how really bad steel cased ammo is to the AR is. And for steel cased ammo to have problems on AR, that must be some ****ty ass AR.

I agree with you and that study itself, no arguments there. But to a recreational/occasional shooter, it's a different story.

 

[Beowulf]

My bad, I apologize, on the 2nd paragraph, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to those people who were saying how really bad steel cased ammo is to the AR is. And for steel cased ammo to have problems on AR, that must be some ****ty ass AR.

I agree with you and that study itself, no arguments there. But to a recreational/occasional shooter, it's a different story.

I used to think that as well, but I've had cases get stuck in both cheaply built franken-ARs, as well as a $1000+ rifles. It's one of the reasons I've more or less given up on the AR platform (though the Stag Arms M8T, being a piston driven AR at right at the $1000 mark has me tempted). Of all the ARs I've owned, only one has not had a steel case get stuck and that was a pre-ban Colt A2 HBAR Sporter, which I sold a while back.

Honestly, though, with the ammo crisis and the introduction of cheaper Wolf brass (and some deals on reloaded), I've been able to buy 1k of brass .223 for only about $50 more than steel, so for the time being, I've more or less stopped buying steel at all (though I will occasionally pick up some at Walmart if there is some there and there isn't a caliber I want more).

 

[SpaldingPM]

My bad, I apologize, on the 2nd paragraph, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to those people who were saying how really bad steel cased ammo is to the AR is. And for steel cased ammo to have problems on AR, that must be some ****ty ass AR.

I agree with you and that study itself, no arguments there. But to a recreational/occasional shooter, it's a different story.

Ohhh ok haha. I agree full heartedly that it is perfect for a recreational shoot. I'd rather throw quarters away instead of two quarters, everytime I pull the trigger!

Out of all the steel case ammo, Wolf has got to be my favorite, followed by that new monarch stuff. Pretty decent. I hate tula. I find the cases extremely weak (my extractor has ripped a rim off before, and I have friends who stove pipe frequently due to that), and I occasionally have a round that has a primer not seated correctly, or has been completely reversed! 3 times I even opened a box to find a russian surplus 5.45 in there! How the hell does that happen?

I love steel, but Tula lacks some serious QC imo.

 

[ol' Huff]

Surprised no one had mentioned the Wolf PA shoot at Atterbury. +/- 20k rounds downrange without malfunction and several shooters putting up 1 to 1.5 MOA groups. All with steel.

 

[Leadkrm]

Steel has always been fine for me with targets. I wouldn't use it as defense ammo at all though.

 

[Tanfodude]

Steel has always been fine for me with targets. I wouldn't use it as defense ammo at all though.

Why not?

 

[SpaldingPM]

Why not?

I personally wouldn't because of the issues I've mentioned before in the thread... no fires due to mis-seated primers or dud primes all together, stove pipes due to the extractor ripping the rim if the case off... those are catastrophic failures... if a round stove pipes during a gun fight... you're done for.
Tula is especially notorious for stove pipes.

 

[mag556]

I'm sorry but I have way too much money in my AR's to feed them with cheap crap I'll stick to the good ammo

 

[PKendall317]

I've probably shot close to 1.2k- 1.3k rounds through my AR using Tula and have never had an issue and have only cleaned my rifle once after about the 1k mark and still no issues. I still keep a few hundred rounds of brass around for a rainy day or when I can afford it but Tula is my default for now and it seems to work pretty well even though it's dirty and smells like crap.

 

[PKendall317]

For personal protection though I go with brass. I keep a mag or two loaded up with Federal American Eagle loaded and on my war belt just in case.