Breaking Away: The Case for Secession

[dusty88]

Well, we could try enforcing the system. It's just crazy enough to work.

Column: A solution to secession fever -- federalism

Well sure the original constitution was a brilliant document but the commerce clause was too weak to hold off the tyrants.

Based on history as well as the growth of our federal government, I seriously doubt we will see peaceful federalism or peacesful secession. More likely is an economic collapse of the central government, then its final power grab for resources. When they can't provide enough material goods for the masses, people will have nothing to lose and finally rebel.

What decade that happens, I don't know.

If not that, sure I'd be happier with federalism than secession. If either had a real chance.

 

[dusty88]

America is not a tyranny, not by any objective standard. (At least not yet.) And, the people truly have the ability to change things at the ballot box, if "they" want. But, they don't vote. If they don't vote, chances are not good that they'll fight.

America is an oligarchy. That's objective and mathematical.
Can people change things at the ballot box? Well, the more powers that are centralized the more subject the individual is to the opinion of a national majority.
What's also (I suspect) mathematical is that your vote doesn't count for as much as the dollars do. I think if you looked at how much money is spent "winning" each vote, and in turn how the money coming into the system is doled out to those who favor the politicians you could mathematically show that power is bought.

 

[T.Lex]

I think if you looked at how much money is spent "winning" each vote, and in turn how the money coming into the system is doled out to those who favor the politicians you could mathematically show that power is bought.

Hey - Carmel politics has a whole different thread.

(I keed, I keed.)

 

[dusty88]

well, you should have at least some nebulous idea in the back of your mind of what your personal limits are on the power of central government. I'm not gonna Godwin the thread, but the more general truth is that a republic requires responsible citizens. If we shrug off our power to Washington, then we deserve whatever befalls us.

 

[T.Lex]

If we shrug off our power to Washington, then we deserve whatever befalls us.

I do not disagree.

I think where we find disagreement is in the methods. Emphasizing secession as a legitimate strategy, when it is not, reduces credibility and distracts from the goal: to fix what is broken.

 

[dusty88]

I do not disagree.

I think where we find disagreement is in the methods. Emphasizing secession as a legitimate strategy, when it is not, reduces credibility and distracts from the goal: to fix what is broken.

You have a fix, I'm with you.

If not, I'd rather some discussion and people are there to someday help us or our descendants form a new republic or group of individual states, not go the way of Russia.

I agree it's an academic discussion at this point . That thought process and education are nonetheless very important.

 

[Henry]

"The Right of Secession" by Gene H. Kizer, Jr., Bonnie Blue Publishing, Southern History, Southern Literature

 

[Henry]

The answer is unequivocally "no," they did not. Colonies explicitly retained the power of secession in the same document that ratified the U.S. Constitution.

I dug this up in our last discussion and received blank stares.

.

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Absolutely.