Building a precision rifle

[Tc343]

Well I'm looking for info atm. Currently I'm looking at making a precision rifle. I'm stuck between the action of a remington 700 and a savage. I want a .308 and something I can customize without having to go through hoops to find parts.

I have debated getting a complete rifle and not just an action, I kinda feel a complete rifle would be a waste since I plan to change out the stock exc.


I want something that has a smooth action. Short or long better?
Accurate to atleast 600 yrds

What is a true action? They tend to run a cpl hundred more.

 

[sloughfoot]

You don't say anything about your personal accuracy level, therefore I will make an assumption.

Buy a stock 700 or Savage in .308 and buy a thousand rounds of good ammo and test your rifle on the range at NRA mid-range prone matches. Believe it or not, 600 yards is only mid-range. Learning to read the wind, correct for conditions, and making good ammo, is far more important than how much money you have, to plunk down on a "precision" rifle.

Listen to the other shooters on the line, really listen to the guys who shoot well. Sift out the crap. Do this and you will not be asking these basic questions on the internet. You will start to realize that the shooter is far more important than the equipment.

This is just my opinion. You are still free to spend thousands on equipment that you may or may not be able to shoot up to. But then again, since I don't know you, you may just want to build a pretty rifle that you can post pics to get oohs and aahs. Lots of guys do that too. I won't fault them for that..

I prefer to get bloody on the firing line. And learn.

I apologise if I made too many assumptions about you. I just need to re-state my opinion on this every once in a while. I have been shooting highpower rifles for a while now....I have been mentored by great shooters and I always look for opportunities to mentor others.

Sincerely submitted....
Dean

 

[downzero]

I would get the Savage F-class rifle with the 30ish inch barrel, a decent scope, and a lot of ammo!

 

[sloughfoot]

I would get the Savage F-class rifle with the 30ish inch barrel, a decent scope, and a lot of ammo!

I would too. I have always lusted over that rifle. I wish I owned one.

Good advice.

 

[Tc343]

I've been shooting for awhile, though nothing over 300 yards or with a precision rifle though. I am not looking to spend a lot on the rifle, more on the ammo to practice with it. I'm just getting into reloading so that will help to. Though I don't want a lemon either.

I'm looking for a rifle thats gunna be a good solid starter rifle. I have A LOT of learning to do so i'm not going to go all out until I have lots of rounds down range with a precision rifle.

My question really is I have it narrowed down to a remington 700 or a savage in 308. I've been looking at a 24" barrel, to short? Also whats a good twist. I see a lot a 1x10s and 1x12s.... I have done some research still need to do a lot more.

From what i've read, and yes its the internet so everyone has a say so but everything points towards savage. I keep reading how remington has been having a rough patch with newer rifles and that savages have awesome barrels exc. Is this hearsay or the truth?

 

[lumpagus1]

I've heard and read about barrel lengths for precision rifles and what I've heard is that for precision accuracy a shorter, stiffer barrel is what you want. The magic number I've heard is 20" for a 308. I personally am not a fan of fluted barrels so I can admit that I am a bit bias when it comes to precision barrels. The more I read and research the more I get the sense that a longer barrel doesn't necessarily give you more accuracy. The longer the barrel (from what I've heard and read) the faster muzzle velocity you'll get, however I don't relate muzzle velocity with accuracy...longer distances maybe, accuracy...I don't think so.

If you want a Remington 700 action I'd suggest ordering one through Surgeon Rifles. They are a great custom precision rifle shop and they'll definitely refine a basic Remington action into something you won't regret. Plus the last time I checked their website, their actions come with a Picatinny rail incorporated into the action. In this fashion the rail isn't going to come loose and your optic will stay solidly mounted to the rail. Therefore no worry in loss of zero, however your wallet is going to have to absorb the recoil of the price tag.

 

[Mech45]

You can buy a Savage action, a prefit barrel, and a stock and put your own rifle together. I bought a Savage single shot target action, a 30" McGowen barrel and Eliseo stock and put together my own rifle. You will need a barrel vise, a barrel nut wrench and go no go gauges. There are numerous You tube videos on how to go about it and you will get a great deal of satisfaction putting it together yourself. There are less expensive stocks to go with besides the Eliseo to save some money but the Eliseo is very nice and perfect for F-class. Custom rifles are nice but they are expensive and most of the delivery times are quite long. You can buy a factory 700 or Savage and save some money but you won't learn what you will putting one together yourself. Here are some links:
Long Range Prone | Got X Ring

Savage Pre-Fit Barrels

More involved doing it with a remington 700:
Multi-Purpose .308 Win Eliseo Tubegun within AccurateShooter.com

 

[42769vette]

As the popularity of the savage rifles grow so does the aftermarket parts selection. I dont think there are as many options for the savage as the 700, but there is not the huge diffrence there usto be.

 

[CBR1000rr]

I am by no means a "precision" shooter. I am getting better with each trip to the range but I am not half the caliber of a few of the shooters on this forum.

Like you, I too wanted to get into long range shooting for accuracy. I still do but my thoughts have changed on how to go about it. So here here my thoughts. Take them with a grain of salt as everyone is different.

1. It doesn't matter which rifle you get. Both will be capable of greater accuracy than you are. I'm not trying to be a jerk about it but both of those rifles are fantastically accurate and it would a truly awesome marksman to pull the most out of either one.

The round you have chosen seems to be a very popular round for long range shooting but there are going to be other rounds that are far less expensive to shoot on a regular basis if you are only wanting to get out to 400 - 600 yards.

If you have your mind made up that a Remmy or Savage in 308 is going to be your next rifle, buy one you like to look at. The fact is, both have a plethora (aside from the Savage Axis) of aftermarket stocks and such. Honestly, since you plan on changing that stuff, I would find a cheap complete rifle and upgrade it as you get the funds.

The biggest piece of advise I could give would be to listen to the people on this forum. Not all of them but there are some truly intelligent people on this board who are more than willing to share their knowledge with someone who honestly wants to become a better marksman.

Oh..... and yea..... Good glass is key.

 

[kludge]

Another vote for the Savage as an off the shelf rifle that will get the job done. A 24" barrel would be good at 600 yards. Mine is a Savage FP110 in .308 Win with a 24" barrel. Got it, oh about 18 years ago.

At 1,000 yards I would probably go longer... at least 28", that's a different animal and I won't pretend to know anything about shooting at 1,000 yards.

If I were doing it over today I would probably buy Savage in a .260 Rem or a 7mm-08 in the same configuration and an appropriate F-Class stock, but after doing one custom barrel, I'm hooked and for no more than it costs I would buy (on a budget) a Savage Target Action and put a McGowen barrel on it. It's SO MUCH easier to clean than a factory barrel, I doubt I will ever buy another factory centerfire rifle. And for <$300 for the barrel, why would I?

My un-bluprinted, flimsy non-AccuStock, McGowen barrel Savage WSM action in .358 WSSM shoots consistent 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups from sandbags. The largest I've recorded is 1.2" while working up loads. My hunting load shot 0.4" when doing the load development. My buddy has an identical rifle (except in stainless and has the AccuStock) and his does the same thing.

For 600 yards, with a larger budget, I would build on a BAT or Surgeon action and probably do one of the 6.5mm catridges, probably a .260 Rem or a 6.5 Creedmore.

The reason is recoil. I can't shot more than 20-30 rounds of .308 without bruising... yes I'm a whimp, so be it. Sure you can do a 6mm (like a .243 Win) but at 600 yards I'd rather have a 6.5 or 7mm bullet to help buck the wind.

At 1,000 yards I would be thinking about the .280 Rem or the .284 Win.

 

[downzero]

I think it's obvious that the OP asks some questions that suggest that he really doesn't know what he's looking for. For example, he asked if he should use a short or long action. But for someone buying a factory rifle in .308, that isn't an option, since .308 is a short action cartridge, and if he really thought that he was going to put a .308 barrel on a long action, then he would probably know why he desired the longer action and the advantages of longer/heavier bullets that would potentially be an option at that point. That said, I can't think of any good reason to use a long action with a .308 short of the Army's excuse that they want to be able to spin a .300 win mag tube on later.

600 yards is also not far. Even a good .223 with the right barrel would be able to do that no problem.

I also suspect that he does not yet handload. OP, if that is true, start handloading before you buy any precision rifle. You will not be able to afford the kind of accuracy you're desiring without handloaded ammunition. It can't happen unless you're ridiculously wealthy, and if you had $1+ a shot for ammo, you could just be calling up a gunsmith and ordering a custom rifle.

I suggested a .308 even though 6, 6.5, and 7mm bullets in non-magnum calibers tend to have better ballistic performance, because .308 is cheaper and more popular. But I also agree with those that have suggested that .243 or .260 (or their ackley improved cousins) would be ideal choices with 115 grain or 142 grain bullets. I don't recommend 7-08 because it doesn't have the powder capacity for the heaviest 7mm bullets and so .260 Rem will likely be a better choice in .308 sized cartridges.

This long post is the reason why I suggested the .308 with the 30ish inch barrel above. It is made for F-class (F/TR actually).

Also, those of you who think a 20" barrel .308 would be more accurate than a longer barrel, I have some swampland to sell you in Arizona. That may be true at 100 or 200 yards for shooting groups, but at distance, more barrel = more velocity and reducing flight time is going to be the biggest variable for a new shooter shooting at distance. A 175 grain SMK at 2800+ fps is going to really have great performance out of the .308 cartridge.

 

[Dave Doehrman]

Well I'm looking for info atm. Currently I'm looking at making a precision rifle. I'm stuck between the action of a remington 700 and a savage. I want a .308 and something I can customize without having to go through hoops to find parts.

Either of those in .308 is good to go out to 1,000 yards if you have the skill and the correct ammo/reload combination.

I built mine starting with the Rem 700 SPS Varmint with the 26" heavy barrel. It is 1:12 twist and handles 168 gr A-Max bullets very well. 20" barrels seem to work quite well out to about 800-900 yards, but the guys shooting 1,000 yards well usually go with the 26" or 30" barrels. I like the fact that there are so many options and parts available readily to improve the accuracy of the stock 700 platform. Savage as others have mentioned builds good weapons as well, but I just prefer the 700.

As your skills improve and you start looking to tighten up your groups, a good stock or chassis system will usually help. I prefer the AI 1.5 chassis. No bedding or glass work required. Just drop the action in and tighten the 2 screws down to 55 inch pounds. The factory adjustable trigger on the 700 is good, but I installed a Jewel Trigger set to 1 lb. pull. The trigger is so crisp and smooth that all you do is concentrate on your sight picture and breathing, keeping steady pressure on the trigger, and BOOM, each shot is a surprise.

The most important thing you will need for long range precision shooting is a scope that is predictable and has good tracking (the ability to dial adjustments up and down, right to left, and return to zero each and every time). Be prepared to spend at least as much for the scope, bases and rings as you spent for the rifle. You can start with less expensive options, but as you progress in your skills, you will be wanting to upgrade. 42769vette is an advertiser here and knows optics and mounts. I have 3 of the NightForce scopes on my 1,000 yard bench rifles, but you don't need to start there. I also like the NightForce Direct Mount base for the 700 action. It is a solid, one piece base and NightForce doesn't recommend lapping the rings.

I have around 3,800 rounds through my SPS factory barrel and it shoots as well as the day I broke it in. I kept waiting for the barrel to wear or erode so I could install a custom barrel, but now, I'm happy with what I have.

I'm sold on the 168 gr Hornady A-Max bullets for my reloads. Most of the guys shooting 1,000 yards prefer the 175 gr slugs, but do what feels right for you. If you go with the heavier bullets, a 1:10 twist is the best option.

Whichever rifle you choose, make sure good optics are part of the initial package. You don't need a 'top of the line' scope as you start, but I'm sure you will be looking at them soon.

Good luck with your rifle and if you ever get up around Ft Wayne, you can go on up to Young;s Longshot Range and shoot it out to 1,000 yards. I can't describe the feeling when you start hearing the bullets impact the steel over 1/2 mile away. If you know your weapon, optics and ammo, you don't need to be Carlos Hatchcock or Annie Oaklie to shoot long range. I have had people sit down behind my bench guns (some had never shot beyond 100 yards) and had them hitting the steel at 1,000 yards on their first shot.

 

[Yeah]

No one building anything for long range use is best served by a 308 Win, nor any other offering using a 0.308" bore. When action length, action size, mag length, bolt face, and case capacity are held constant 0.308" bores necessarily finish behind 0.284", 0.257", 0.243", and 0.224". The only way to do worse is to neck up.

Don't handicap yourself out of the gate.

 

[Dave Doehrman]

Don't handicap yourself out of the gate.

Please type in all caps and make this bold so my poor .308 can hear you

Here's a 5 shot group at 500 yards that measures 1.496" or 1/3 MOA at 500 yards.

And here's a 5 shot group at 1,000 yards that measured just under 5 inches, or just less than 1/2 MOA at 1,000 yards.

Yes, there are other calibers out there that may look better on paper or have a better following among bench shooters, but I don't think going with a .308 is a handicap.

 

[downzero]

No one building anything for long range use is best served by a 308 Win, nor any other offering using a 0.308" bore. When action length, action size, mag length, bolt face, and case capacity are held constant 0.308" bores necessarily finish behind 0.284", 0.257", 0.243", and 0.224". The only way to do worse is to neck up.

Don't handicap yourself out of the gate.

It isn't a handicap when F/TR is .223 and .308 only.

And yes, of course when case capacity is held constant, the biggest bullets are a loser. That's basic physics.

The 6mm 107 and 115, 6.5mm bullets in the ~140 grain range, and the 175 grain+ 7mm bullets all have BCs higher than the practical .308 bullets, because .308 win doesn't have enough case capacity to use the 210, 220, and 240 grain .30 caliber bullets.

But I would also argue that needing a 300 RUM or 284 win (with their associated expensive brass) just to get started isn't a good choice.

If he's a handloader, .243 or .260 both can be loaded with cheap brass, low recoil, and good performance.

But he'll be stuck in F/Open, which is a tough place to start.

 

[Yeah]

Yes, there are other calibers out there that may look better on paper or have a better following among bench shooters, but I don't think going with a .308 is a handicap.

The physics of the matter are past debate and extend well beyond paper (or steel). 308 Win is in fact a handicap, for a guy standing at a gun counter with money in hand. Doing it with less drift, less drop, and less recoil, is exactly where to start.

 

[Yeah]

It isn't a handicap when F/TR is .223 and .308 only.

And yes, of course when case capacity is held constant, the biggest bullets are a loser.

Leaving aside bigger having nothing to do with anything, have we put this guy into F Class now?

But he'll be stuck in F/Open, which is a tough place to start.

Must be the bigger bullets that make it so.

 

[downzero]

Someone has their underwear in a bunch. Pretty hard to agree with you when you still want to argue.

By your logic, everything short of a Chey-tac is a handicap.

 

[Yeah]

What part of what I wrote isn't straight forward? Can a Cheytac round fit into a 308 Win sized action? What part of less drop, less drift, less recoil in a like action size, length, and mag length, escapes you?

I'm at ease in dealing with facts. Emotional attachments, less so.

 

[Dave Doehrman]

.308 Win is in fact a handicap

Remember Oscar Pistorious? He was the double amputee from South Africa that competed in the able bodied Olympics this year. Some people call him handicapped, but he still runs faster and performs better than 99.9% of the worlds population. I enjoy a challenge and shooting 168 gr, .308 caliber bullets is enjoyable for me. I have a .338 Lapua that I used to shoot at 1,000 yards, but rarely take it out of the case because it is boringly accurate and consistent at that yardage.

I enjoy reading the wind, estimating windage and waiting patiently for the correct moment to drop the hammer. The OP said he wanted a .308 and asked about a 700 or a Savage. I replied with my opinion on the 700.

I believe you're the one who took off on a tangent, ignored the OPs original question and then started trolling for responses. I won't continue to reply to off topic comments.