bullet proof vest question

[j706]

I have done a number of unscientific tests on retired (Old and out of date) ballistic panels (soft body armor) All were level IIA. am guessing I have shot up about four or five different vests over the years. I have soaked them in water, left them in the sun and weather for months and left them out in freezing weather. I have never shot one with any handgun or a shotgun round that completely penetrated any one single panel. I am talking 12 gauge 3" copper solids, one ounce slugs, 44 mag, 357 mag., 357 sig, 50 AI (Desert Eagle) 22 mag, 22 LR and 17 HMR. and many others. I even put a panel on muddy as well as hard ground and fired slugs at point blank range with no complete penetration. On the muddy ground the slug balled the vest up into a ball and drove it about three to four inches in the mud.

Significant non rimfire rifle rounds blow through soft armor like nothing, front and rear panels to be exact.

I think soft armor panels are somewhat factory under rated with a built in safety factor as to their actual stopping ability. In short soft armor works quite well IMO. It is not perfect by any means but it sure as heck beats nothing! As we all just tragically saw in Indpls. side protection is limited. It also has many other protective benefits other than gunfire.

 

[Fargo]

I have done a number of unscientific tests on retired (Old and out of date) ballistic panels (soft body armor) All were level IIA. am guessing I have shot up about four or five different vests over the years. I have soaked them in water, left them in the sun and weather for months and left them out in freezing weather. I have never shot one with any handgun or a shotgun round that completely penetrated any one single panel. I am talking 12 gauge 3" copper solids, one ounce slugs, 44 mag, 357 mag., 357 sig, 50 AI (Desert Eagle) 22 mag, 22 LR and 17 HMR. and many others. I even put a panel on muddy as well as hard ground and fired slugs at point blank range with no complete penetration. On the muddy ground the slug balled the vest up into a ball and drove it about three to four inches in the mud.

Significant non rimfire rifle rounds blow through soft armor like nothing, front and rear panels to be exact.

I think soft armor panels are somewhat factory under rated with a built in safety factor as to their actual stopping ability. In short soft armor works quite well IMO. It is not perfect by any means but it sure as heck beats nothing! As we all just tragically saw in Indpls. side protection is limited. It also has many other protective benefits other than gunfire.

Yeah, it is my understanding that most vests will stop penetration of sub-rifle projectiles well above their rating. However, they are not rated for them because back side deformation is such that there is still a very significant chance of serious injury or death via the energy/cavity created as the vest deforms back.

Best regards,

Joe

 

[j706]

Yeah, it is my understanding that most vests will stop penetration of sub-rifle projectiles well above their rating. However, they are not rated for them because back side deformation is such that there is still a very significant chance of serious injury or death via the energy/cavity created as the vest deforms back.

Best regards,

Joe

Yes Sir you are correct. It would really suck to take any round to vest. I can't even imagine a slug. I was just thinking that I have never read of anyone being killed from BFT after a shot to a vest. Guess I need to research that.

 

[Rookie]

Most tests I've seen (not that many) were performed with clay torsos so the testers could see the damage even though the vest stopped the bullet. It didn't look pleasant.

 

[Rookie]

Here you go...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot16.htm

Kinda scary.

 

[Disposable Heart]

and I will add that the splatter from a AR500 plate will hurt you as well.

This is why if one uses a steel plate for protection, they end up spending almost as much as a low end ceramic plate for an anti-spall coating/layer. Ask me how I know...

As for the original question, depends on the armor. If it's a decent armor, it will stop the slug. Soft, might break a few ribs. Hard, might push them slightly. People seem to be laboring under the delusion that gunfire rocks people around. It has as much, if not less, "recoil" ability than what is put into the shooter when firing, GREATLY diminished due to the inefficient transfer of energy (even with JHP). So, unless you are hitting a vital area, "knocking them on their butt" with a slug is only a VERY distant possibility. Look at actual shooting footage. Even the most minute of jump in the body of the victim of gunfire is usually muscle induced from the sharp impact of the round.

 

[.452browning]

Here you go...

The Box O' Truth #16 - Level IIIA Armor - Page 1

Kinda scary.

yeah I'd say a 12ga slug well exceeds the depth of internal organ damage due to blunt force trauma.

 

[.356luger]

see if dicks still stocked their shelves with ar15 maybe even a browning bar mkII safari we wouldn't be having this discussion.

So it would seem to me that the best course of action would be to shoot oo buck at the upper thigh area in the event of armored terrorist and hope for arterial spray after impact?

 

[swilk]

This is why if one uses a steel plate for protection, they end up spending almost as much as a low end ceramic plate for an anti-spall coating/layer. Ask me how I know...

As for the original question, depends on the armor. If it's a decent armor, it will stop the slug. Soft, might break a few ribs. Hard, might push them slightly. People seem to be laboring under the delusion that gunfire rocks people around. It has as much, if not less, "recoil" ability than what is put into the shooter when firing, GREATLY diminished due to the inefficient transfer of energy (even with JHP). So, unless you are hitting a vital area, "knocking them on their butt" with a slug is only a VERY distant possibility. Look at actual shooting footage. Even the most minute of jump in the body of the victim of gunfire is usually muscle induced from the sharp impact of the round.

You are of the opinion that a person could absorb 2000 ft lbs of energy and getting knocked on their butt would be only a distant possibility?? Over 20 times as much energy as getting hit with a 95mph fastball .... and you dont think it would knock them down?

Im not talking off their feet and flying through the air ... I am talking knocked on their butt.

20 times as much energy as a 95mph fastball .... and you think it "might" break a few ribs?

edit: just looking at a winchester 1oz 3" slug .... 1780fps equals about 3000 ft lbs. 30 times as much as that fastball.

 

[.356luger]

You are of the opinion that a person could absorb 2000 ft lbs of energy and getting knocked on their butt would be only a distant possibility?? Over 20 times as much energy as getting hit with a 95mph fastball .... and you dont think it would knock them down?

Im not talking off their feet and flying through the air ... I am talking knocked on their butt.

20 times as much energy as a 95mph fastball .... and you think it "might" break a few ribs?

edit: just looking at a winchester 1oz 3" slug .... 1780fps equals about 3000 ft lbs. 30 times as much as that fastball.

There are alot more factors at play than just KE i read this article a while back. I do agree however there is a high probability of rib breakage

How Hard Does It Hit?

 

[kawtech87]

So it would seem to me that the best course of action would be to shoot oo buck at the upper thigh area in the event of armored terrorist and hope for arterial spray after impact?

I would aim center mass with a slug or buckshot. Try to disrupt the heart/lungs with BFT.

Or go to the archery section and grab a cross bow and some bolts tipped with broad heads. Honestly the best way to defeat soft armor is with a blade. Yes there is knife proof armor but it is only rated to stop a knife attack and generally will not hold up to being shot with an arrow or bolt with anything other a target tip. It may not be as practical but if you want to PENETRATE soft armor its the only way other than a rifle round.

Plate armor obviously is a different story but it is also very unlikely you will encounter a BG suited up with plates. It is honestly extremely unlikely you will ever encounter a BG that is even wearing soft armor. But I suppose anything is possible nowadays.

 

[Slawburger]

Grab some bottles of skunk scent off the shelf and start chucking them from the gallery.
That will penetrate body armor.

 

[swilk]

There are alot more factors at play than just KE i read this article a while back. I do agree however there is a high probability of rib breakage

How Hard Does It Hit?

I was going with the assumption that the vest would in fact stop the round and the body would then be forced to absorb every last sliver of energy. If one assumes the vest stops the round all that matters is KE .... right?

 

[.356luger]

I was going with the assumption that the vest would in fact stop the round and the body would then be forced to absorb every last sliver of energy. If one assumes the vest stops the round all that matters is KE .... right?

no its an overall look at physics for instance a db in the nfl averages 1600ft/lbs during a tackle almost half that of a slug in ke. but the dbs momentum (mass x velocity) is much greater so it takes more to stop him.

 

[swilk]

k. I see the point.

I still see broken ribs and a quick trip onto your backside if you get shot by a slug .....

 

[phatgemi]

I will concur with the unscientific tests. I also did some with old vests that were being replaced due to age. 44 mag, 357, 12 slugs all stopped but not sure I would want to be on the receiving end. 17 hmr and other rifles go thru like hot knive in butter!!! Fun experiement.

 

[2ndAMEND]

Here you go...

The Box O' Truth #16 - Level IIIA Armor - Page 1

Kinda scary.

Ill just try to continue to not get shot. That's the safest strategy

 

[ChalupaCabras]

As stated, most serious soft armor will stop a 12g lead slug. Significant blunt force traume will result.

Hard steel / ceramic armor is MUCH better at distributing and abzorbing the blunt trauma, but will still result in some trauma. Soldiers catching rounds to their plates from centerfire cartridges of similar energy levels usually end up with a large bruise, but no broken bones or serious injury. Many are able to jump back up after being shot with 30-06 class rifle rounds.

Hard armor for the win.

If you are serious about protecting yourself from that kind of threat, Get yourself some AR500 steel plates, and do some weight training to adapt yourself to moving with the extra weight.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Most slugs will be stopped by a vest. The Brenneke hard target slugs will penetrate up to and including level IIIA armor. Either one will cause some nasty BFT injuries. http://www.brennekeusa.com/cms/file...imum_Barrier_Penetration_Slug_Information.pdf

 

[lrahm]

First, borrow a vest from someone ... anyone. Now add a heavy ceramic or metal plate. That's about an extra 25 pounds you will be carrying. My vest alone is hot and uncomfortable but I wear it out of necessity. AND, it doesn't have the extra metal plate. You will like the "Michelin Man". Summertime is a pain, but I do go home at night. It doesn't give me superhuman strength and I get to the point that I don't realize that it's there but at close quarters it stop most anything except a bottle nose weapon.

I have seen one stop a .45 (early model) at close range. the officer did stop the threat.