Can We NUKE Saudi Arabia Yet?

[Tactical Dave]

I was trying to be humorous with the NUKE title...in hindsight I suppose it really wasn't all that funny.

I was more trying to point out that it's a barbaric way to deal "justice". I have no problem castrating rapists, but severing the spinal cord of a man---REALLY?!? How is that NOT considered torture? The inability to appeal is also something that is overlooked---what if the man in question DIDN'T start the fight, defended himself, and is now facing paralysis for defending himself?

He got in a fight with a guy and paralized him...... do you think some jail time is more fair? He would serve a few years then get out still being able to walk... this guy will not....... From what I know of that law you can only use eye fro an eye if you wer enot the agressor. If he was not but everyone else said he was then be glad you live in this country and not over there...

The problem with the people in this country is that they want to get involved in everyones buisness and tell them what they can and can't do.... It is their right to have the laws that they want to have...... if you don't like them then they should leave....... even if it means walking.....

You say castrate the rapist but even it was proven that someone was the agressor and started the fight and paralized someone you feel that they to should not be paralized......... something does not jive there.


No disrespect but if you travel to other countries and think that what you have here applies for over there you might be in for a rude awakening....... decide to get drunk and get thrown in jail and then find out they can hold you as long as they want and don't have to feed you then they tell you your wife can come and service the guards and then they will let you out... or have her come back........

The movie "Taken" is a good watch........

 

[PatriotPride]

He got in a fight with a guy and paralized him...... do you think some jail time is more fair? He would serve a few years then get out still being able to walk... this guy will not....... From what I know of that law you can only use eye fro an eye if you wer enot the agressor. If he was not but everyone else said he was then be glad you live in this country and not over there...

The problem with the people in this country is that they want to get involved in everyones buisness and tell them what they can and can't do.... It is their right to have the laws that they want to have...... if you don't like them then they should leave....... even if it means walking.....

You say castrate the rapist but even it was proven that someone was the agressor and started the fight and paralized someone you feel that they to should not be paralized......... something does not jive there.


No disrespect but if you travel to other countries and think that what you have here applies for over there you might be in for a rude awakening....... decide to get drunk and get thrown in jail and then find out they can hold you as long as they want and don't have to feed you then they tell you your wife can come and service the guards and then they will let you out... or have her come back........

The movie "Taken" is a good watch........

What "doesn't jive"? You're ok with torturing someone by cutting their spinal cord for getting in a fight and paralyzing someone? I am not. No, I see NOTHING wrong with castrating rapists, and it's already being done (at the very least, chemically) in many parts of the country.

You make some very broad assumptions indeed. The purpose of the OP was not to say that we should change other nations' laws, but to point out how barbaric they can be, as illustrated by a specific incident.

I've seen "Taken" many times...I'm not quite sure what the significance here is?

 

[rambone]

People can say they are barbaric all they want but many countries that have those laws have VERY low crime rates period...... they don't have repeat offenders over and over again, they don't have to release prisoners early because the jails are over crowded...... as a rule they don't have to spend much on prisions because either they have none or have few......

You have to decide which is more important to you: Liberty or Order. You could have 100% Order and 0% Liberty on one end (Martial Law), and 0% Order and 100% Liberty on the other end (Anarchy). Somewhere in the middle is a Constitutional Republic of limited government.

If you want to compare crime rates of other countries, you must also weigh their liberties out. Do they have any liberty? Are they allowed to own weapons to defend themselves? Do they live in a Police State where you will be killed on sight without a trial?

He got in a fight with a guy and paralized him...... do you think some jail time is more fair?

Jail time may not be the "fairest" punishment for many crimes. But we don't live in an eye-for-an-eye society. We have a constitution that keeps Government from enforcing tyranny. Check out the 8th Amendment, also 5-7 regarding treatment of criminals.

We fight for the preservation of the 2nd Amendment, we should also respect the rest of the Bill of Rights. It is dangerous to let Government to torture, maim, and otherwise inflict extreme levels of violence against a convicted criminal. Either their life or liberty will be taken, in a manner that fits the constraints of the constitution.

No disrespect but if you travel to other countries and think that what you have here applies for over there you might be in for a rude awakening....... decide to get drunk and get thrown in jail and then find out they can hold you as long as they want and don't have to feed you then they tell you your wife can come and service the guards and then they will let you out... or have her come back......

Scary right? That's why we are lucky to have a constitution that protects us from crazy tyrannical government. God forbid one of us gets wrongly convicted.

 

[Tactical Dave]

Im not sure if they can have guns or not...... with a low crime right they may not feel the need to have them as much as we do.

Our views of liberty and their are different...... they may feel that they have lots of freedoms or are happy with what they get.. most Americans are give me give me give me so when they see other countries they say how horrible it is but yet the people that live their don't complain.

I mean there are some countries that don't have eye for an eye laws, citizens don't have gun's, crime rate is very low and the citizens are very happy (think a few countries in Europe).

On the OP they asked the guy that got paralized what he wanted done to the other guy...... he could have smiled and said let him go and guess what????

We also have to remember that our views of "barbaric" may not be viewed as barbaric by other countries..... for those that beleive in God and the bible look up all the passages on people being stoned or when it was said that they should be stoned.... some of the things said and by whomb may shock you....... Not to mention the times people died along with their family for stealing and lieing about it.


Here is the simple solution...... don't do the crime if you don't want bad things to happen to you...... or don't live there.

I don't think it's right though when the go to stone a woman and burry her chest deep (if you can get out then they stop and thats it) but a man is burried to his knees and can ussualy get out. I think both should get an equal chance.

Maybe this all is because I was raised to look at things from my own view and someone elses. Lets remember that not all countries that have low crime rates and citizens with no guns are run like a police state with an iron fist government. Many in Europe that are very happy..... some places you can leave your baby and purse in a stroller outside and go in for a bite to eat and come back out and both are still there.


Personally there are things I would GLADLY give up to have a much lower crime rate... not a lot of things but some.........

There is something wrong when you get sent to jail and get to kick back, get free meals, and watch TV.

It is ok to castrate someone that rapes a person but when someone firghts someone and paralizes them you can't paralize them............. that just makes my head hurt......

 

[rambone]

Personally there are things I would GLADLY give up to have a much lower crime rate... not a lot of things but some........

Are we talking about getting rid of televisions in prisons or about giving up constitutional amendments?

 

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

Dave, you brought up some interesting points. Another should be how they view our Society as immoral.

 

[dross]

If you chop off a hand, how do you give it back if you find out later he was innocent?

In our system, you can't give him back the time he lost to his incarceration, but you can let him out of jail. If you cut off his hand it can never be returned.

Correlation isn't causation. Countries have low or high crime rates for a variety of reasons. Gun control advocates have been using that fallacy for years, citing Japan's and other countries' low crime rates and overlooking multitudes of other factors.

Simple criminal science: Severity of punishment isn't the major deterrent to crime - likeliehood of getting caught is a much larger deterrent, as is societal disapproval.

Crime rates are about as low as they've been in forty years. What problem are we trying to fix?

 

[beararms1776]

 

[hoosiertriangle]

Our history would suggest that paralyzing another would be a felony. The common law could/would justify the death penalty for this. So the death penalty vs. being paralyzed is the real discussion. "Eye for an eye" is the retribution aspect of criminal law. Retribution still is a foundational element of our criminal justice system, it just isn't the only element.

The restraint we're talking about here on the government is whether this is cruel and unusual. Cruel, doubt it. Unusual in the U.S. definately. Unusual in Saudia Arabia, doesn't sound like it. Unusual in the historical context, still yes, but then that would suggest the usual punishment, death would be appropriate.

I think we've lost a bit of perspective on our own history and we've muddle some issues. This isn't about the appeals process, this is about whether the punishment is ok. For me its about deciding whether I think paralysis is more fitting than death. Being that the death penalty would be an appropriate punishment under our common law system, I think paralysis seems a fair punishment.

You have to decide which is more important to you: Liberty or Order. You could have 100% Order and 0% Liberty on one end (Martial Law), and 0% Order and 100% Liberty on the other end (Anarchy). Somewhere in the middle is a Constitutional Republic of limited government.

If you want to compare crime rates of other countries, you must also weigh their liberties out. Do they have any liberty? Are they allowed to own weapons to defend themselves? Do they live in a Police State where you will be killed on sight without a trial?




Jail time may not be the "fairest" punishment for many crimes. But we don't live in an eye-for-an-eye society. We have a constitution that keeps Government from enforcing tyranny. Check out the 8th Amendment, also 5-7 regarding treatment of criminals.

We fight for the preservation of the 2nd Amendment, we should also respect the rest of the Bill of Rights. It is dangerous to let Government to torture, maim, and otherwise inflict extreme levels of violence against a convicted criminal. Either their life or liberty will be taken, in a manner that fits the constraints of the constitution.



Scary right? That's why we are lucky to have a constitution that protects us from crazy tyrannical government. God forbid one of us gets wrongly convicted.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Countries that have eye for an eye laws haver VERY low crime rates.........

Rape someone and get castrated, steal and loose a hand, steal again and loose the other.. hard to steal again with no hands......

You get in a firght and hurt someone, the same will happen to you...

Some will stone a woman for adultry... people say it is wrong....... well she should not have done it either and stonings happend a lot in the Bible......

Of course, in those countries, women are routinely raped as punishment to their families (not for anything they have done), and it's only the women caught in adultery who get stoned to death, not the men involved.

 

[Tactical Dave]

If you chop off a hand, how do you give it back if you find out later he was innocent?

If someone is fasly convicted and spends half their life in jail then is set free how do they get those years back? If they are fasly convicted and executed how do they get their life back?


Rambone, T.V's in prison and things of that nature..... I mean people will go out and commit a crime just to go back to jail because life is easier there. free T.V.... free heat and a/c..... free food..... just may have to put up with the occasional fudge packing...


Like I have said, I don't agree with how women are treated in some of those countries.

 

[Super-T]

An "eye for an eye" will leave the whole world blind...

 

[techamber]

A very odd way of responding to things, but go ahead and let countries run themselves how they see fit within the confines of agreed upon international law. If it runs outside that, then it really doesn't matter unless somebody does something about it. And by somebody I of course mean the US, and they're our ally anyway. It's really too bad international politics are forced into choosing what serves us best over moral and ethical beliefs.

 

[Tactical Dave]

A very odd way of responding to things, but go ahead and let countries run themselves how they see fit within the confines of agreed upon international law. If it runs outside that, then it really doesn't matter unless somebody does something about it. And by somebody I of course mean the US, and they're our ally anyway. It's really too bad international politics are forced into choosing what serves us best over moral and ethical beliefs.

Caugh... Somolia... cough.

 

[techamber]

Caugh... Somolia... cough.

Not really getting your point there? Somalia pretty much supports my argument.

 

[tradertator]

For the record, I wasn't praising them. I was just pointing out that that kind of "justice" isn't confined to just Islam. Plus I think it would be stupid to denounce one of the few... "allies" that we have over there. Yes, I know, they're not REALLY an Ally, but it's one of the closest things we have to an Ally over there. Save only for Israel.

Kind of hate to call the country where majority of the 9/11 pilots are from ally's.

 

[tradertator]

Countries that have eye for an eye laws haver VERY low crime rates.........

Rape someone and get castrated, steal and loose a hand, steal again and loose the other.. hard to steal again with no hands......

You get in a firght and hurt someone, the same will happen to you...

Some will stone a woman for adultry... people say it is wrong....... well she should not have done it either and stonings happend a lot in the Bible......

I don't want to drop names, but I remembering reading some red text, in which a guy gives a speech about casting the first stone.

I know our system is not perfect, but it BEATS THE HELL out of Saudi Arabia!

 

[Tactical Dave]

I don't want to drop names, but I remembering reading some red text, in which a guy gives a speech about casting the first stone.

I know our system is not perfect, but it BEATS THE HELL out of Saudi Arabia!

Can't really argue that but if you go by the fist stone then NOBODY could punish anyone......

Not really getting your point there? Somalia pretty much supports my argument.

I know it does, that is why I said it

 

[SavageEagle]

Kind of hate to call the country where majority of the 9/11 pilots are from ally's.

When it comes to the middle east, it's not in our best interests to be overly picky when it comes to who we call allies. I may not agree with Saudi Arabia on anything, but if they're not hostile to us, we have no reason to be hostile to them. If they show us aggression like Iran has, that's a good reason to break ties.

 

[techamber]

Kind of hate to call the country where majority of the 9/11 pilots are from ally's.

True, but Saudi Arabia has also provided us with a fair amount of help in terms of mobility within the middle east.