Carry weapon question.

[Porsche911]

When I carry in public, I typically carry a Glock 23. At some point along the way, I decided to have the trigger pull adjusted to 3 1/2 lbs. Is this a good idea to still carry? I have heard stories that if I should ever actually need to use it, that I could get into trouble for having the trigger adjusted. I have other options, but prefer to use that one. I had it done at the Indy 1500 one time, by the Glock Doc. I have also heard that he is not really a licensed Glock guy, this is why he has to polish and sand things down to make them fit. I don't know who is right or wrong. Can I have it set back to factory at this point?

 

[sloughfoot]

If it is a justified shoot, it is a justified shoot.

Anything can be changed.

 

[SMiller]

How do you like the trigger? Do you feel it is to light/to heavy/just right?

How many rounds have you fired since having the work done? Any issues?

Are you positive it is even a true 3.5lbs pull?

If you have had zero issues and love the trigger pull then run it forever!

Don't get caught up in the bs that you will get in trouble IF you have to use the weapon, that is total bs!

I install Glock (-) minus connectors in all of my Glock handguns and love the trigger, I don't listen to any bs that it will cause problems.

At no point in time will I ever use a aftermarket trigger/connector/trigger bar as some/most have been shown to cause issues where as the (-) Glock OEM connector has shown zero issues as it is a standard issue part.

 

[wizardfitz]

If it is a justified shoot, it is a justified shoot.

Anything can be changed.

I also have wondered about changing a stock gun.

 

[wesnellans]

This has been discussed recently. I have concerns about less than stock poundage triggers in a defensive gun. It's a touchy subject.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ight-trigger-pull-liability-massad-ayoob.html

AND! I messaged Mas himself and got this in response:

Re: brief question if you can spare a moment.

---

Unexplored territory; it's a relatively new gun and I don't know of any shootings with it, let alone legal action arising therefrom. Since the light pull is factory spec and the VP9 is sold as a duty gun, it SHOULD be more defensible. Time will tell.
best,
Mas

Quote:

Originally Posted by wesnellans You've been my go-to guy for information for years, and I know how busy you are, so if you can't respond to this I understand. Just read your wonderful write-up about the liability of light trigger pulls. What about, say, something like an HK VP9, which has a lighter trigger than most of the pack of striker guns, but is the unmolested stock configuration? Since it's unmodified, should I be concerned in carrying/defending with said gun, given it's trigger from the factory? Thanks for your attention.

​

 

[ModernGunner]

Well, a good shoot is a good shoot, to be certain.

JMO, however, that in a real-life high stress situation, that 3.5# trigger IS a 'hair trigger'. Adrenaline and nerves kick in, no matter how 'cool' you can remain under such duress.

As Ayoob noted 'trigger affirmation' is real, it exists, and it affects the experienced as well as the novice.

In a real-life scenario, you're not going to notice a 'heavier' trigger pull, even if it's double that. Believe it.

Again JMO, but having been there / done that, I would never personally carry a handgun for self-defense with a trigger pull that light, or have any EDC trigger pull lightened beyond how it comes right from the factory. Just haven't found a single handgun that it was an issue. From any handgun, from any manufacturer I've ever owned in 4 decades of carrying a firearm. I often carry a Glock 23 as part of my 'regular rotation', and feel it's light enough right from the factory. Certainly lighter than any of the DA/SA or DAO revolvers or semi-autos carried.

"A good shoot is a good shoot" to be sure. But having the gun fire because you 'flinched' (due to the adrenaline pumping, nerves, perhaps the BG suddenly moving, or whatever) and shooting someone you were not 100% justified in shooting WILL create a 'bottomless well' of problems for you. Believe that, too.

As noted, JMO's. YMMV.

 

[wesnellans]

Well, a good shoot is a good shoot, to be certain.

JMO, however, that in a real-life high stress situation, that 3.5# trigger IS a 'hair trigger'. Adrenaline and nerves kick in, no matter how 'cool' you can remain under such duress.

As Ayoob noted 'trigger affirmation' is real, it exists, and it affects the experienced as well as the novice.

In a real-life scenario, you're not going to notice a 'heavier' trigger pull, even if it's double that. Believe it.

Again JMO, but having been there / done that, I would never personally carry a handgun for self-defense with a trigger pull that light, or having any EDC trigger pull lightened. Just haven't found a single handgun that it was an issue. From any handgun, from any manufacturer I've ever owned in 4 decades of carrying a firearm. I often carry a Glock 23 as part of my 'regular rotation', and feel it's light enough right from the factory. Certainly lighter than any of the DA/SA or DAO revolvers or semi-autos carried.

"A good shoot is a good shoot" to be sure. But having the gun fire because you 'flinched' (due to the adrenaline pumping, nerves, perhaps the BG suddenly moving, or whatever) and shooting someone you were not 100% justified in shooting WILL create a 'bottomless well' of problems for you. Believe that, too.

As noted, JMO's. YMMV.

Can't rep you again, it seems, so I'll just say..... ^^^THIS^^^

 

[Drail]

I absolutely agree that a 3.5 lb. trigger on a carry gun is totally unnecessary and very probably a liability without severe discipline and gunhandling skills. If someone is about to have you for breakfast you won't notice the trigger weight at all. I shot IPSC with triggers as light 2 lbs. (or less) and decided it was just too much work to stay on top of it when shooting fast. It can be done very well but it's kind of like trying to drive a muscle car in city traffic.

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

In a real-life scenario, you're not going to notice a 'heavier' trigger pull, even if it's double that. Believe it.

I agree with this. I once shot my Glock 23 (with stock trigger) too soon just doing mild 3-gun type/fun shooting at a friends property. I was pointing at the targets in a safe direction so it was not a problem, but between the breathing from running up to the line and the mild adrenaline from being followed/timed, I pulled the trigger a little too soon as I was swinging my sights over to a new target. Only happened once, but it certainly illustrates the point, and I won't carry anything lighter than stock because of that.

I could only imagine in a defense situation that it would just as easy, if not easier, to pull the trigger without feeling the weight.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Well, a good shoot is a good shoot, to be certain.

JMO, however, that in a real-life high stress situation, that 3.5# trigger IS a 'hair trigger'. Adrenaline and nerves kick in, no matter how 'cool' you can remain under such duress.

As Ayoob noted 'trigger affirmation' is real, it exists, and it affects the experienced as well as the novice.

In a real-life scenario, you're not going to notice a 'heavier' trigger pull, even if it's double that. Believe it.

Again JMO, but having been there / done that, I would never personally carry a handgun for self-defense with a trigger pull that light, or have any EDC trigger pull lightened beyond how it comes right from the factory. Just haven't found a single handgun that it was an issue. From any handgun, from any manufacturer I've ever owned in 4 decades of carrying a firearm. I often carry a Glock 23 as part of my 'regular rotation', and feel it's light enough right from the factory. Certainly lighter than any of the DA/SA or DAO revolvers or semi-autos carried.

"A good shoot is a good shoot" to be sure. But having the gun fire because you 'flinched' (due to the adrenaline pumping, nerves, perhaps the BG suddenly moving, or whatever) and shooting someone you were not 100% justified in shooting WILL create a 'bottomless well' of problems for you. Believe that, too.

As noted, JMO's. YMMV.

This. To save time and because I've answered this question so many times before, I'm just going to quote myself from another thread to tack on to this. Note the "Trigger affirmation" in ModernGunner's post. People do it. They don't think they do it.

...and this is why I prefer DA/SA guns. Folks can quote movie characters about booger hooks all they want. Reality isn't the same.

It boils down to this, at least locally:

A good shoot is a good shoot. It doesn't matter what you use. The last self defense shooting I was on, a store clerk came up behind the suspect, shot him in the back of the head at the base of the skull with a .45, and dropped him. The homicide screening prosecutor came out, told the lead detective not to even Mirandize the guy and just ask if he wanted to make a statement, and said it was a no file right there on the scene. Good shoot. The gun was processed, of course, but the decision was made before the crime lab tech even picked the gun up. If it was later discovered to have a 0.001 lb trigger, who cares? Good shoot = good shoot.

The issue with the ultra light trigger is..."but there’s no such thing as a “justifiable accident” or as I usually put it, you can't justifiably accidentally shoot someone. Poop happens. It happens easier when you're hyped up and under stress.

 

[Phoenix1]

My cousin is a police officer on the SWAT team back home in Texas. I spoke to him about the issue of modified guns, and he did not confirm the notion of "getting in trouble" with modified firearms. As mentioned above - a justified shot is a justified shot.

 

[edporch]

Regardless, the way law enforcement is taking people's guns, even in the case of good shoots, and making it all but impossible to get them back, DON'T put too much money into your carry gun.

i.e. Only carry guns you can stand to lose, and buy multiple copies so you won't be defenseless in the case where it gets taken.
You may NEVER get it back.

Example:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/impatience-grows-over-impd-property-room-backlog

 

[seedubs1]

I'd HIGHLY suggest reading that Massad Ayoob article.

A justified shoot is a justified shoot.....until an attorney convinces the jury that you lightened the trigger too much and had a ND.
Personally, the most I do to my carry guns is swap out the sights.

 

[seedubs1]

How many times are you involved in a shooting? If I'm involved in a shooting, the last thing I'm going to be worried about is a $500-1000 gun being lost in the legal system.

Regardless, the way law enforcement is taking people's guns, even in the case of good shoots, and making it all but impossible to get them back, DON'T put too much money into your carry gun.

i.e. Only carry guns you can stand to lose, and buy multiple copies so you won't be defenseless in the case where it gets taken.
You may NEVER get it back.

Example:
Impatience grows over IMPD property room backlog - TheIndyChannel.com

 

[IndyGlockMan]

I guess that means all those millions of custom 1911's out there people carry all need to be changed back to stock...

 

[edporch]

How many times are you involved in a shooting? If I'm involved in a shooting, the last thing I'm going to be worried about is a $500-1000 gun being lost in the legal system.

Maybe for awhile.
But after months and months go by, you've been cleared, and they refuse to return your $1000+ pistol, I bet you'd be singing a different tune.

Do some research, and you'll find this scenario is happening more and more across the country.
I don't have to have shot somebody in self defense to know this is true.

Here's another thread that talks about this.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...sing-return-guns-becoming-more-prevelant.html

 

[seedubs1]

Maybe for awhile.
But after months and months go by, you've been cleared, and they refuse to return your $1000+ pistol, I bet you'd be singing a different tune.

Do some research, and you'll find this scenario is happening more and more across the country.
I don't have to have shot somebody in self defense to know this is true.

 

[chezuki]

I had it done at the Indy 1500 one time, by the Glock Doc.

You should probably take it to a legit Glock Armorer and make sure the turd from the 1500 didn't FUBAR it like he has many others. I wouldn't trust anything he touched for carry.

As for carry legality, as most others have said, a good shoot is a good shoot whether it's with a Bryco or a full-custom race gun.

 

[sjstill]

Glock Doc is a hack. I'd run a minimum of 500 rounds through the pistol to make sure everything works properly. I've personally witnessed several pistols he's done trigger jobs on go full auto. Nick talks a good game, but that's about all he does well.

I fail to understand why people let a guy that Glock WILL NOT certify work on their Glock pistols. In police work, we called that a clue.

 

[bocefus78]

When I bought my first gun, a g23, I let that jackhole do some work to it. I didn't know any better.

Long story short, the above 2 posters are correct. I had plenty of light primer strikes. It's actually how I found ingo...googling glock doc bad trigger jobs.

I put the factory striker spring back in and it works like it should.