Carrying in church with a daycare/preschool.....knives

[PeaShooter]

OK, We have had many discussions about carrying in a church with a daycare or preschool. I understand that there is the potential for the school/daycare prohibition to be applied judicially to the church as a whole, 24/7. As I sat disarmed in church today (my church has a daycare/preschool during the week), I was thinking about the 2 knives in my pocket. It occurred to me that there is also a prohibition about knives in a school.

That being said, if you can't carry a handgun in a church with a daycare/preschool, what are your thoughts on a knife? Do you think that there would be less chance of prosecution for a knife than a gun? What makes them different? In my estimation, they wouldn't bother with prosecuting a knife (think grandpa with his pen knife), so why would they prosecute a gun?

Just curious on your thoughts on the issue.

 

[Mr. Habib]

I believe you would be legal. Note the bold section below.
IC 35-47-5-2.5
Possession of a knife on school property
Sec. 2.5. (a) As used in this section, "knife" means an instrument that:
(1) consists of a sharp edged or sharp pointed blade capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds; and
(2) is intended to be used as a weapon.
(b) The term includes a dagger, dirk, poniard, stiletto, switchblade knife, or gravity knife.
(c) A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally possesses a knife on:
(1) school property (as defined in IC 35-41-1-24.7);
(2) a school bus (as defined in IC 20-27-2-8); or
(3) a special purpose bus (as defined in IC 20-27-2-10);
commits a Class B misdemeanor. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the person has a previous unrelated conviction under this section and a Class D felony if the offense results in bodily injury or serious bodily injury to another person.
(d) This section does not apply to a person who possesses a knife:
(1) if:
(A) the knife is provided to the person by the school corporation or possession of the knife is authorized by the school corporation; and
(B) the person uses the knife for a purpose authorized by the school corporation; or
(2) if the knife is secured in a motor vehicle.
As added by P.L.72-2006, SEC.9.
If you were seen carrying or using you knife for any purpose other than as a weapon, it will be very difficult to argue that it being carried as such. If you need it as a weapon, legal trouble will probably be the least of your worries. IANAL, TINLA.

 

[PeaShooter]

The reason i carry two is one is a tool, the other is a weapon.

 

[groundhog]

Thanks for the discussion. I do not carry in Church/School because it is not legal, but I do carry two knives.

One as a utility tool, and one as a defensive tool. My defensive tool is in place of where I would normally carry. Front right pocket.

I will soon replace my defensive knife with an AK-47!

 

[Buckaroo]

This is why I do not attend a church that meets in a school or has a pre-school in Indiana.

Too bad that Indiana law includes pre-schools (I disagree with the school prohibition too) as lots of churches have them as a community outreach/service.

Buckaroo

 

[warangelcometh]

Our lawmakers didn't have the foresight to understand that churches are hot targets for thiefs. Every Sunday around offering time, churches are prime targets for a quick grab of cash. Sit in the back of the church or wait inconspicously in the hall when the ushers come out with "thousands" in cash and checks and Walla - grab and run. Most thiefs rely on the fact that "law abiding citizens" will respect the law and not carry a their handgun in church and therefore know that they are easy targets. Just another way to limit citizens' ability to protect themselves...

 

[Westside]

Since we're on the subject of guns and church.

What if you are employeed by the church in a "Security" role. would the law still apply or is there an exemption for that?

 

[magic man]

The reason i carry two is one is a tool, the other is a weapon.

No, they are both tools, remember?

 

[Mr. Habib]

Since we're on the subject of guns and church.

What if you are employeed by the church in a "Security" role. would the law still apply or is there an exemption for that?

You're good. Here's the code:
Information Maintained by the Office of Code Revision Indiana Legislative Services Agency
IC 35-47-9
Chapter 9. Possession of Firearms on School Property and School Buses
IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

 

[jamin]

My church also has a daycare/preschool Monday-Friday. I have talked with a LEO who attends the church and he told me that since the church is used as a multi-functional facility it would only be "school property" during the hours the daycare is operating not 24/7. Now everyone can interpret the definition differently but at least I know I won't have any trouble with him on Sunday mornings or any other time.

 

[Scutter01]

My church also has a daycare/preschool Monday-Friday. I have talked with a LEO who attends the church and he told me that since the church is used as a multi-functional facility it would only be "school property" during the hours the daycare is operating not 24/7. Now everyone can interpret the definition differently but at least I know I won't have any trouble with him on Sunday mornings or any other time.

He's wrong. You may not have trouble from him, but it's still a felony. A school is a school 24x7x365, according to the statutes.

 

[lovemachine]

So I carry 2 pocket knives. If I was caught at a school with them, as long as I said they were tools, then I'm legal.

What if they don't believe you? What should you do then?

I believe you would be legal. Note the bold section below.
IC 35-47-5-2.5
Possession of a knife on school property
Sec. 2.5. (a) As used in this section, "knife" means an instrument that:
(1) consists of a sharp edged or sharp pointed blade capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds; and
(2) is intended to be used as a weapon.
(b) The term includes a dagger, dirk, poniard, stiletto, switchblade knife, or gravity knife.
(c) A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally possesses a knife on:
(1) school property (as defined in IC 35-41-1-24.7);
(2) a school bus (as defined in IC 20-27-2-8); or
(3) a special purpose bus (as defined in IC 20-27-2-10);
commits a Class B misdemeanor. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the person has a previous unrelated conviction under this section and a Class D felony if the offense results in bodily injury or serious bodily injury to another person.
(d) This section does not apply to a person who possesses a knife:
(1) if:
(A) the knife is provided to the person by the school corporation or possession of the knife is authorized by the school corporation; and
(B) the person uses the knife for a purpose authorized by the school corporation; or
(2) if the knife is secured in a motor vehicle.
As added by P.L.72-2006, SEC.9.
If you were seen carrying or using you knife for any purpose other than as a weapon, it will be very difficult to argue that it being carried as such. If you need it as a weapon, legal trouble will probably be the least of your worries. IANAL, TINLA.

 

[wolfts01]

So I carry 2 pocket knives. If I was caught at a school with them, as long as I said they were tools, then I'm legal.

What if they don't believe you? What should you do then?

They would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you intended to use it as a weapon to harm someone. I would think it near impossible for them to get you unless you signed a hand-written letter declaring that you are going to cut so-and-so with your knife. As far as I understand, you could carry a machete with you as long as you don't want to hurt anyone.

Even if I carry a knife for protection, I don't ever "intend" to use it as a weapon. If it happens then fine, but it's just a tool until then.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

The reason i carry two is one is a tool, the other is backup in case the first one gets dull.

FTFY.

Thanks for the discussion. I do not carry in Church/School because it is not legal, but I do carry two knives.

See above.

No, they are both tools, remember?

Exactly.

They would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you intended to use it as a weapon to harm someone. I would think it near impossible for them to get you unless you signed a hand-written letter declaring that you are going to cut so-and-so with your knife. As far as I understand, you could carry a machete with you as long as you don't want to hurt anyone.

Even if I carry a knife for protection, I don't ever "intend" to use it as a weapon. If it happens then fine, but it's just a tool until then.

Depending, for myself if I was on the jury and you were just carrying it and not threatening anyone, you would walk. But if you were carrying a knife that is designed and marketed as a defensive knife, I could see a prosecutor getting a jury to convict. For example something like this.
YouTube - A covert review of the Death Dealer 2000

 

[CountryBoy19]

I believe you would be legal. Note the bold section below.
IC 35-47-5-2.5
Possession of a knife on school property
Sec. 2.5. (a) As used in this section, "knife" means an instrument that:
(1) consists of a sharp edged or sharp pointed blade capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds; and
(2) is intended to be used as a weapon.

ETA, nevermind... missed a single word in there, it's not the same as my other example...

 

[Scutter01]

YouTube - A covert review of the Death Dealer 2000

That was hysterical. "George is crying here, but he cries 'tactical tears', which are invisible."

 

[PeaShooter]

YouTube - A covert review of the Death Dealer 2000

How did that guy get the Glaive from the wonderful cinematic 1983 movie Krull
YouTube - Krull - The Glaive

 

[Buckaroo]

Ferris Wheel of Death!? OMG I cannot believe I wasted 90 seconds on that (I skipped forward to the good part)