Child Support & Human Nature

[Phil502]

Did you see where there was a mistrial previously because the jury deadlocked on 1st degree or 2nd degree murder or manslaughter.

What kind of idiot thinks tossing a child off a cliff is manslaughter.

I was told once that good people always try to get off of jury duty thats why there are so many idiots on jury's. It's got to be true a lot of times. Decent people should just try to serve when asked and not try to skip out even though decent folks generally have responsibilities that seem a lot more important.

 

[hookedonjeep]

Bottom line..... the guy is a cheap bastard.

My background: Proudly paid my child support for over a decade - through thick and thin. Never once thought about offing my kid to save a few bucks.

I can't even fathom the idea..... how important THINGS must be in your life to take precedence over the life of YOUR KID!

For whatever reason, two parents goes to one. You can look at it like "He has his freedom, while I am stuck taking care of HIS kid"...... OR, in my case, "I missed out on my child growing up, and she got to see it all". My old lady and I split when my son was six. She moved him as far away from me as possible, and denied contact. Had HIM tell me on the phone that they didn't need me, and never wanted to see me again.... a six year old! My son turned 18 in January of this year, and I am STILL trying to get a steady dialogue going.

Point in hand, I paid my support, without question, for over a decade. Most folks do, without regard to the possible LEGAL troubles they may encounter. I hope this scumbag gets the max - he has NO idea what he is going to miss out on. Someone else made the choice for me. (crazy ex!)

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

First, a thought. Money makes the world go round. Men place much of their self-worth on their financial success/stability.

Generally, yes, but not all of us. Those of us that have had money taken out of the equation tend to measure things a bit differently.

When money gets thin, men do crazy things.

You're really talking about two different situations though.

One, a man who is forced to pay for a child he does not want. This would logically lead to violence against the child or mother of the child directly.

Two, a man who has no income to take care of his family because of the downfall of the economy. This man, in my opinion, is more likely to commit acts of violence against strangers in order to care for his family. Only when the situation is deemed irreversably hopeless will he then murder his family in order to end their suffering.

There is a third action.

Suicide.

A loss of self-worth. A sense of embarrassment over a divorce or separation. A frustration over life in general spinning out of control. Frustration at not being allowed to see a child or children, whether that is due to a court order or the EX being nasty and not following custody orders.

I lost a BIL several years ago to the above description. He made between $600 and $900 a week, depending on overtime, and his child support was set at 60%, per child custody agreement in the divorce, of what he earned. That was for one child.

He put a .380 to his temple after arguing with his EX and pulled the trigger. To make the situation worse, he did it in front of the EX.

I am not saying that it was her fault. My BIL had many options open and available to him for that situation to have ended completely different. We (the family) were trying to keep a close eye on him, reassure him that things would settle down and get better. He had stolen the firearm from his brother earlier in the week so no one realized he had access to any guns (he voluntarily turned over his firearms to the family until he could be in a more stable state of mind sometime in the future).

His last statements were to the effect of, "I can't live without my son." "I don't have enough money to feed myself, let alone have anything 'extra' for myself."

 

[Paco Bedejo]

60%...yikes. I'm going to go ahead & say that's a criminal amount to take from someone. How could you get by?

Let's assume someone has a decent entry-level job making $11/hr, 40 hours per week. This is fairly generous pay for the purpose of our discussion.

$11/hr x 40 hours = $440/wk Gross
$440 x .70 = $308/wk Net (Assuming 30% covers SS, Medi___, State/Fed Tax, and Health Insurance)

$308 x .40 = $123.20 after paying 60% for child support.

Could you live on $123.20 every week? That's about $533/mo. Car, Roof, Gas, Food, Clothes?

Rent: $300 at least
Food: $100 at least
Car: $50 at least
Gas: $60 at least
Utilities: $150 at least
Clothes: $20 at least

Total: $680 to live all by your lonesome in poverty...and you don't even make that much in this situation. A $300 apartment in a town with jobs is going to be a hole. $100 for food assumes that you've found a way to eat for under $1.20 per meal. $50 for car includes oil changes, plates, tires, brakes, etc. Can't be putting the child at risk when riding with you. Assuming you only live 10 miles from work & don't go anywhere else in your little economy car, that's going to take 1 gallon of gas ($2.80/gal) per day, for an average of 21.5 work days per month...totaling around $60/mo. $150 utilities covers a phone so you can arrange your limited visitation rights, have heat, electricity, and water. Assuming you work a labor job, you're going to need around $20/mo of clothing to avoid looking homeless...even shopping at Goodwill.

And that budget is almost $150/mo more than what you make after everyone takes their cuts.

This is what the custody-loser can look forward to, it seems. Sure, boo-hoo, the other parent (Father OR Mother) has to take care of the kid(s). I'm sure glad the custody-loser gets the freedom to live in squalor & beg for chances to see their kid(s)

Even if the child support is only 30%, you would only Net $934/mo in this situation. If you spread that money into a more realistic budget, it's still not much at all.

Rent: $350
Food: $150
Car: $50
Gas: $80
Utilities: $200
Clothes: $20
Savings: $84

And remember, all of this assumes you didn't get stuck with any of the marital debts & that you own your car.

Regardless of whether you think someone should be put into a situation like this...I ask you if we should be surprised when a few people snap because of it?

 

[LPMan59]

The number of children being raised without fathers wasn't caused by the child support system... It was caused by irresponsible, selfish men.

and the parents of these children who dont teach them how to behave. i will not absolve the irresponsible women who open their legs at the drop of the hat. it takes two to tango.

 

[wtfd661]

Here is an easy answer to that, if you don't want to pay that much in child support then that piece of should have jumped off the cliff and left his innocent dayghter alone. I also hope that turd fries and if they are looking for someone to throw the switch then sign me up.

 

[KA9NTZ]

Rent: $300 at least
Food: $100 at least
Car: $50 at least
Gas: $60 at least
Utilities: $150 at least
Clothes: $20 at least

Rent: $300/Mo...ROTFL Try like $600/mo here in Lafayette. I'm a single father of a 13tr old son, have had full custody for 10yrs, only getting $40/wk support. That wont even cover my sons band and chior fee and supplyes.

 

[hornadylnl]

I think they should make child support tied directly to visitation. If your court order allows you 96 hours (2- 2 day weekends) and she refuses to let you have the child for on weekend, she forfeits half of her child support. I would call the cops every single time I showed up and was refused my visitation.

The sad thing is that in most divorces and child custody situations, neither adult is adult enough to be parents. They use the child as leverage to hurt the other. Here is a true story. I was in a Walmart years ago and standing in the toy aisle. There was a mother with a young kid, around 2-4. The kid was wanting a toy and the mother told the kid, "Get your dad to buy it for you. He's a piece of sh**, he never buys you anything". I don't care how bad you hate your ex or your baby daddy, you should never be allowed to talk to your child's father like that in front of your child. What father wants to participate in their child's life when the child doesn't want anything to do with them because of the way their mother demonized their father?

I glad that I've only ever been with 1 woman in my life and I only have the one child. I don't have to worry about someone coming up to me 10 years after I unknowingly fathered a child and have her demand back support. I told my wife when we started planning on children, that she better never try to use my child against me if we split up. I'm glad I'm fixed now so I don't have to worry about more children. I've not had sexual encounter yet that is worth decades of turmoil that can ensue from it.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Rent: $300 at least
Food: $100 at least
Car: $50 at least
Gas: $60 at least
Utilities: $150 at least
Clothes: $20 at least

Rent: $300/Mo...ROTFL Try like $600/mo here in Lafayette. I'm a single father of a 13tr old son, have had full custody for 10yrs, only getting $40/wk support. That wont even cover my sons band and chior fee and supplyes.

Well, apologies in advance to jenny bird...but the reason, KA9NTZ is because you're a single FATHER in a sexist system. If you were a single MOTHER, based on what I've heard, you'd either be getting nothing from a deadbeat, or you'd be getting ~$500 -> $2,000 per month, depending upon how much blood is in the stone.

My point with the $300/mo rent is that after taxes/insurance/support are taken from that hypothetical parent's paycheck, that's all that's left (actually, not even that). Try to imagine the mindset of someone who's put into a position where they have to eat Ramen Noodles in a 250 sq ft rat-hole for 18+ years.

I can see where some might think it better to at least get a snazzy orange jump suit & a group of people to play ball with...

Now, tossing the kid off a cliff? That's sociopathic, not the norm. But, keep backing people into that corner, most will break, some will become animals.

 

[MontereyC6]

Violence isn't caused by child support any more than it's caused by guns. I find it unsettling to even suggest such a thing. The number of children being raised without fathers wasn't caused by the child support system... It was caused by irresponsible, selfish men.

Disclaimer: I know there are single dads out there as well. The road goes both ways and you are to be commended as well. I salute all you single parents out there who have taken the high road and are responsible for your children.

Oh, and no, 50% of income is not the formula for figuring child support.

Umm, just to be clear... I did not want the divorce or do anything to get a divorce. On the other hand, my exwife had no problem having a 3 year long affair WITH HER BOSS, that even started before the birth of our son. I have NEVER missed a child support payment. NEVER. Even though my income is down 35% from last year, she still gets her check, every week.

 

[45calibre]

i think its sad that kids pay for the parents mistakes. especially when there is a father/mother that doesnt want the kid, if they were man/woman enough to have sex they should be man/woman enough to raise/take care of them.

i was watching jerry springer at work(its the only channel we get thanks to digital tv) and there was a guy who had 2 or 3 kids with one on the way and was there to tell his wife(who was pregnant) that he didnt want the kids or her any more and was just gonna walk out of their lives. i dont know if every thing on that show is real but i know that there really are people out there like that.

its sad the damage that does to kids, people like that should be castrated.

 

[KA9NTZ]

Well, apologies in advance to jenny bird...but the reason, KA9NTZ is because you're a single FATHER in a sexist system. If you were a single MOTHER, based on what I've heard, you'd either be getting nothing from a deadbeat, or you'd be getting ~$500 -> $2,000 per month, depending upon how much blood is in the stone.

Child support is a % of the diff. in the amount each parent makes. Check it out for your self, Indiana Child Support Calculator, download it and input your info and see what it is. I know in my case, back support is added to the base amount to get the NC Parent caught up.

 

[Mr. Habib]

As someone who considers it an honor and privilege to have help raise someone elses kids, for the past ten years and one of my own for the past six, this guy needs to hang. I'll be happy to supply the rope.

 

[jedi]

Human nature scares me...and modern mainstream Americans more-so than others because of how complacent we've become.

Human nature should scare you Paco but there is a ray of hope as well.
Mankind is after all animal at his core. That is not a bad think per say. What is bad is that unlike all other animals we also are murders.I did not say "kill" becuase animals do kill in order to survive (feeding and defending themselves). Mankind on the other hand kills at times striclty for no productive reason. (Case in point your article).

Yes if you back someone into a corner and continue to apply preassure sooner or later you may get the response like in the article. The other side of the coin is that the person becomes "stronger" (in character, moral vaues perhaps they seek a higher power for help, make ends meet and learn a new skill, etc) and overcomes this dark times in their life.

Look at what happens during natural disaterous. The best and worse in mankind come out. Case in point. When Katrina occurred some robbed, lootted, raped, and cause general mayhem when society broken down. Others banded together and saved/rescuded people.

Paco there is no black & white answer to your unasked question on "human nature." Are you worried that you may turn into a monster if placed in such a situation? Or are you concerned that society will all turn into monsters when the economy fails, the dollar is super inflated, medicare/socials security run out, etc.. occurs.

I can't answer the "you" one for "you". Only you Paco can "maybe" make the decision if you will become a monster or not. I say "maybe" becuase while you ma think one way now, if placed in such a position say years from now your though process ma have changed. None of us think the same way we did years back. Sure most of our moral compasses still point in the general direction (whatever that is for each of us) but the though process is different. For example. In high school I always though that using the A-Bomb on japan was a harsh way of ending the war. I could not fathom giving us an order and killing thousands of people to end a war. Now a days I see it different. THad the A-Bomb nt been dropped a lot of MORE lives would have been lost before the end of the war. So in my mind the loss of thousands to have millions was indeed OK. It took some "extra growing up" and more life experences for me to understand that.

As for soeicty breaking down. Well you are going t have monsters to deal with. Sad but true. Being that you are on these fourms I suspect you already have some tools to help you out when dealing with this. but just remember you alone can not do it. Find others locally to help you (friends, mutal support groups, church people etc..). You are NOT alone and human nature is to be civilized and prosper. That can only happen when the majority agree to live by the rule of law.

Stay safe but be prepared to face the monsters should they come.

 

[SavageEagle]

Presuming that the prosecutor is right in his assertion...why do we, as a society, think it's appropriate to back biological fathers so far into a corner that they would feel justified in throwing their child off a cliff & into the ocean?

This is why I've evolved from, last year, wondering what the big fuss about firearms was to, this year, carrying an XDm 40 CCW everywhere I go & trying to get my hands on ammo to practice with both it & my sks.

Human nature scares me...and modern mainstream Americans more-so than others because of how complacent we've become.

I find this whole article to be disturbing. Obviously this guy was a SICKO and had something wrong with him. I'm with Scutter on this, it's making me sick just thinking about it. That said...

I think the whole part about the above about backing fathers in a corner, that's on the father. If you can't handle the woman, don't stick it to her and you won't be stuck with her. Otherwise, man up, keep that family together anyway you can, and DIRECTLY support your kids. There is no excuse in this world that anyone can give me that can justify why either man or woman wouldn't do everything in their power to support their child(ren).

When I became a father, knowing the stupid decisions of my past and those I've pissed off, I knew I had to protect my family. That's why I got a LTCH and now carry everyday. Even if I never have to use it, God Willing, there's nothing I wouldn't do to protect them and provide for them.

I'm completely with you on the horror of complacency in this Country. I do, however, believe that most Americans are waking up. This is good to see, but it's still not enough.

The thought of someone doing that to a little kid makes me physically ill. I'm literally sitting here trying not to vomit.

I can't stand to see stupid #($%ing @#%holes do something like this to kids. The kids never did anything wrong and didn't ask to be brought into this world. Man (or Woman) up and handle you're business.

I've heard of $60/wk/child. Obviously, the formula used is far more complex than either that or "whatever amount it would take to make him work three jobs and still not be able to afford anything but mac&cheese and ramen."

Blessings,
Bill

My oldest daughter's real dad only pays something like $54 a week but it was only $32. And that's when he does pay. Not that he does anything else to support his daughter. Took her camping once this year. Not to mention he has 7 other kids he claims that we know about. Just signed his rights away on one of his more recent ones. Even told the Judge in the past he wanted nothing to do with his oldest daughter.

I'll never understand people like this. First I'd never have went "Unwrapped" like that in the first place. Second, I'd not just pay my support, but buy them clothes, pay for school supplies/outings, Girl/Boy Scouts, other activities, toys, etc etc etc. Even if it broke me. As long as they have want they want and EARN it and are happy, then I'm not so worried as long as I have what I need to survive.

Then again I'd never leave my wife so I'll never have to pay "child support" and just SUPPORT them period!

 

[finity]

The number of children being raised without fathers wasn't caused by the child support system... It was caused by irresponsible, selfish men.

…or their irresponsible, selfish women. Contrary to popular myth, women are just as much to blame as men for bad relationships. They cheat, manipulate, become alcoholics/drug abusers, etc, just like men. Heck there have been recent studies that show that women cause almost as many violent domestic situations as men.

The irrisponsibility I referred to was regarding the care for the child, not whether or not the parents should or should not have had sex in the first place.

The rate for fathers getting custody of their children is only around 20% & that number is an improvement over the last decade. It used to be worse.

There is no reasonable way that you can convince me that realistically 80% of mothers are better parents than men. Statistically that’s not possible. If the system wasn’t immensely biased in favor of the mother then that number should be closer to 50%.

Let us not forget that the single mother is usually backed into a corner as well. Typically however, they fight there way through without resorting to violence.

That’s easy to say, but let’s make the system be completely biased against women & let’s see how things start to go the other way.

The majority of the time, the mother is left to care for the child both physically, emotionally, and financially, 24 hours of every day for the next 18 years. The father is typically asked for mere financial assistance. How is that fair? At least ol' dad still gets his freedom.

“Mere financial assistance”? You call taking up to 60% of a persons pay for the privilege of seeing his kids 4 days per month “mere”?

You’re really trying to say that THE MAJORITY of men abandon their children? I think your sexism is showing.

I would venture to say that more men would LOVE to be able to spend more parenting time with their kids but the custodial mothers (remember that 80%) won’t let them.

Who are these testimonials you speak of coming from? Resentful fathers?

Just like your testimonial seems to be coming from a resentful mother. Just because someone is resentful of the way they were treated by the system doesn’t invalidate their argument. Do you think that fathers who were screwed by the system don’t have a reason to be resentful?

I'm sure there are exceptions, as there are to every rule, but most mothers are far from getting a "free ride". To even suggest it is ludicrous. Hon, I raised two daughters by myself. We were married when they were born so spare me the "should have kept your legs closed speech." He stopped contacting them and refused to pay a dime. He is now in arrears to the tune of over $100,000 plus medical bills and college. I could throw him in jail, but what's the point? He would view that as free room and board and it would cost me even more in attorney's fees.

Now, his friends and family would say he is the victim because I up and left his cheating, drunken, gambling, physically and mentally abusive butt. Why? Because they are deaf to anything but his pathetic, butt-covering sob story. Sounds to me like you've heard a few of these stories too.

I struggled to keep a roof over the kids heads, food in their bellies, and clothes on their backs. Daycare expenses were over $100 per week for EACH of them, just so I could go to work. I have paid every dime of their medical bills, dental bills, extracurricular activities, clothing, book fees, entertainment, childcare, insurance, college tuition, drivers ed classes, car insurance, etc., etc., etc. Do you still feel sorry for their dad? His family would sure like you to.

I see this same scenerio every day. Do not judge what you do not know.

I could tell you my own story but I guess you would just think it was a “sob story”. Who’s to say that those men’s so-called sob stories aren’t true & the ones the mothers are telling are the real lies. Listening to my ex-wife you would probably feel real sorry for her, too. The only problem would be it wouldn’t be reality.

The only story you really know is your own. Do not judge what you do not know.

Some serious educating needs to be done.

Education needs to be done in both directions I guess.

I think they should make child support tied directly to visitation. If your court order allows you 96 hours (2- 2 day weekends) and she refuses to let you have the child for on weekend, she forfeits half of her child support. I would call the cops every single time I showed up and was refused my visitation.

I could almost agree with you about tying support for visitation. I really think it would cut back on mothers denying visitation out of spite or control.

On the other hand it could go against fathers who have run into problems with being able to pay support. Like if the guy loses his job & gets behind, he wouldn’t be able to see his kids.

I think making support & visitation separate issues is best along with strictly enforcing parenting time orders (I really dislike the term “visitation”. You’re not “visiting” them, they’re YOUR kids. You’re being a parent.)

What father wants to participate in their child's life when the child doesn't want anything to do with them because of the way their mother demonized their father?

Agreed.

I told my wife when we started planning on children, that she better never try to use my child against me if we split up.

Or else…?

The rub here is, what would you do if she did use your kids against you? Nothing, that’s what. You are powerless to stop her.

If you did try to do anything then people would be saying:

The guy should fry….

As the father (from personal experience as well as other studies) I know that the courts are extremely biased towards the mother. The judge will almost never do anything to stop it.

My old lady and I split when my son was six. She moved him as far away from me as possible, and denied contact. Had HIM tell me on the phone that they didn't need me, and never wanted to see me again.... a six year old! My son turned 18 in January of this year, and I am STILL trying to get a steady dialogue going.

See Jenny, not all men’s stories are sob stories. Women can be vindictive & manipulative b@$#$’s sometimes, too.

Suicide.

A loss of self-worth. A sense of embarrassment over a divorce or separation. A frustration over life in general spinning out of control. Frustration at not being allowed to see a child or children, whether that is due to a court order or the EX being nasty and not following custody orders.

Unfortunately, that is a better option than either hurting the ex or your child. It’s too bad the system is set up to make it come to that too often.

His last statements were to the effect of, "I can't live without my son." "I don't have enough money to feed myself, let alone have anything 'extra' for myself."

Most mothers have no idea what it feels like to have your kids taken from you (remember that 80% figure).

In the beginning of my divorce I had custody of my kids through an agreement between us. The new boyfriend didn’t want kids & she wasn’t mentally stable enough to handle them on her own.

That all changed when she (& the boyfriend) realized how much support she could get from me (she admitted it to me). Even though I had tons of evidence about her emotional problems she got custody anyway & then she proceeded to move over 6 hours away. I worked 7 days a week to pay support so I only got to see them every couple of months (when she would let me). Every time I had to drop them off & say goodbye it almost felt like they had died. I had to grieve every single time until I finally, eventually, became numb to it. That was the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

I think the whole part about the above about backing fathers in a corner, that's on the father. If you can't handle the woman, don't stick it to her and you won't be stuck with her.

That works both ways. If the mother can’t handle the man…well, you know the rest.

Otherwise, man up, keep that family together anyway you can, and DIRECTLY support your kids.

…

Then again I'd never leave my wife so I'll never have to pay "child support" and just SUPPORT them period!

Unfortunately you aren’t the only one in control of whether you will stay together. She could always leave you, but you’d still be in exactly the same situation as if you left her. Indiana is a ‘no fault’ divorce state (or something like that - can’t remember the exact term).

I'll never understand people like this. First I'd never have went "Unwrapped" like that in the first place. Second, I'd not just pay my support, but buy them clothes, pay for school supplies/outings, Girl/Boy Scouts, other activities, toys, etc etc etc. Even if it broke me. As long as they have want they want and EARN it and are happy, then I'm not so worried as long as I have what I need to survive.

That’s the point. The court may have already made sure you were broke before you even get to pay for all the extras beyond support. In addition, legally, except for medical bills (after a certain deductible amount) & your share of college, that’s all you’re required to pay. All those other things are already included in the support amount. Many guys do those extra things, but you're not required to.


I can see how fathers could get to the point they want to lash out, but I don’t condone it. I don’t think its right, but I can at least understand it.

The system needs fixing.

 

[hotfarmboy1]

Some of these fathers paying child support pay alot more than most of us think. One buddy of mine I used to work with at the dealership, use to have to pay support for his daughter to his ex wife till he finally got custody (that's a story in/of itself). After they got divorced, his ex had 2 other kids, both by different fathers, and neither of them were paying support. My friend was the only one paying. Eventually she got a job at mcdonalds, worked there for a week then quit saying "I get paid more a week from support from my ex husband than I make in a week here". And hasn't held a job since. Every time he saw his daughter her clothes were practically rags and her mother horribly underdressed her in fridgid temperatures in the winter. He found out his ex was spending all the money on the other two kids, and not on his daughter. So instead he held out a bit extra each week to buy stuff just for her, school supplies, clothes, gifts, etc. One day he mentioned to me how much of his paycheck he was paying out every week to her. It was very close to half of his paycheck a week. The rest of his check couldn't quite pay his monthly bills at his house, so he did extra work on the side in his garage to finish paying bills and to have any extra money. Thank God he finally got custody of his daughter cause the situation at his ex's place was even worse than I've mentioned so far. Now she's happy , healthy, and getting the stuff she needs to lead a happy life.

 

[SavageEagle]

My wife has already said she'd never sign divorce papers. Even if she did, I'd give my kids everything I own and sleep under a bridge if it meant them being taken care of. I mean nothing next to my kids.

I'll agree that the system needs fixing, but I can't believe the way you're talking. You act like it's a big sacrifice to give up 60-70-80% of your paycheck to help support your kids. As I stated before, I'd give my life for my kids. And besides, you don't think your kids wouldn't take most of your paycheck directly supporting them? My kids see most of my money before I do. Why do you think I'm broke? I do find ways to get what I want, but about 99% of what I WANT is put on hold the next 15 years.

I don't care as long as my kids get a chance to live and survive this cruel world. They're going to learn to work for what they want, but kids are kids and I'm not going to make my 8y/o dig ditches to be able to buy a new bike.

I hope that doesn't bother anyone here. If so, damn the bad luck.

Oh and btw finity, have you been thinking about your reply for the past 5 days or what? Damn that was long winded!

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

My wife has already said she'd never sign divorce papers. Even if she did, I'd give my kids everything I own and sleep under a bridge if it meant them being taken care of.

Ryan, I don't mean this to be disparaging of you or your wife in any way. Please don't take offense to it.

Heat-of-the-moment decisions cause many people to break their word, vows or promises and do things that they never thought that they would do. My wife and I split for nearly a year after 10 years of marriage. Both of us had made many statements in the past that we would never give up on our marriage or that we would/could work through any problems that forced us to the brink of divorce. I'll just say that she reached her breaking point with me and I her in a very short amount of time. Things that she said that she would never do, like use our children as weapons against me, she did. I cannot say that everything that I did toward her in the separation was honorable, either. The point being, we say things with the best of intentions that sometimes have no basis in the reality of the moment.

I'll agree that the system needs fixing, but I can't believe the way you're talking. You act like it's a big sacrifice to give up 60-70-80% of your paycheck to help support your kids. As I stated before, I'd give my life for my kids. And besides, you don't think your kids wouldn't take most of your paycheck directly supporting them? My kids see most of my money before I do. Why do you think I'm broke? I do find ways to get what I want, but about 99% of what I WANT is put on hold the next 15 years.

Remember, in my BIL's case, his child support (CS) payments were based on a percentage of his income, not a set amount every week. The more he made, the more that was taken from his check for CS. My BIL burned a lot of bridges in the small town that he lived in so he was unable to find employment for himself in the local area. Because he damaged his reputation he was forced to work outside his county. And yep, it was his fault, but it effected him and his child.

These are just rhetorical questions to add to my point:

When you can't make your car payment anymore and you lose it so that you can't get to your job?

When you can't afford your $400.00 a month house rental payment, where do you live?

When the EX unnecessarily takes the kid to the doctor for every sniffle, splinter or ache, and you get the bill, how do you pay?

When you take your EX back to court to complain about denied visitations, how do you pay for your lawyer and her lawyer for the court time? (This was true in my BIL's case).

If both sides "fought" fair in dealing with one another, yes, a person COULD send 60+ percent of their paycheck to the child, but most divorces are pretty ugly and the only winners are the lawyers involved. In small cities there is a lot of collusion between lawyers that happens that can make or break how you "win" or "lose" in the divorce.

 

[SavageEagle]

Well, lets just say this. No matter how bad it gets, I will find the peaceful middle ground until my youngest turns 18. That's what my father did. He waited until I was 18 and left my mother after 27 years of marriage. I've never seen him so happy in my life.