CME or EMP survivability?

[rhino]

Concern over the power grid is very real because the wires comprise a giant antenna to receive an EMP.

Concern over most modern consumer electronics and especially vehicles is less so. An EMP created by a thermonuclear detonation that is strong enough to permanently disable a vehicle will also be hot enough in the same vicinity to make worrying over the EMP a non-issue as you're being incinerated.

 

[actaeon277]

Concern over the power grid is very real because the wires comprise a giant antenna to receive an EMP.

Concern over most modern consumer electronics and especially vehicles is less so. An EMP created by a thermonuclear detonation that is strong enough to permanently disable a vehicle will also be hot enough in the same vicinity to make worrying over the EMP a non-issue as you're being incinerated.

I disagree.
An upper atmo detonation is the best emp creator if I remember right. At a distance you can live from.

Oh. And the effect on power lines is called the "Compton Effect"
Nuclear Weapon EMP Effects

 

[Thor]

Leave it to the sub guy...

 

[Cameramonkey]

Leave it to the sub guy...

Speaking of... Can you imagine being one of them after a CME? Or the guys deep underground in the airtight bunkers? They could live for days. But to what end?

 

[actaeon277]

Speaking of... Can you imagine being one of them after a CME? Or the guys deep underground in the airtight bunkers? They could live for days. But to what end?

In a survival situation, life itself is a purpose.

 

[Thor]

Yes indeed, the longer you live the longer you have to figure out how to live. Even if all seems hopeless maybe you can come up with something until you need to come up with something else.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

Heard a lecture from Dr Peter Pry on these issues. He has written several books on the subject.

More info here: January 5, 2016 l On Blackout Wars l High Frontier

and

Family Security Matters

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

Another good article on EMP.

Consumers' Research » EMP White Paper

 

[Thor]

You can go here and download the report empcommission.org

 

[Thor]

After perusing the report...it looks like a lot of other commission reports. Everything will be fine (until the food runs out - which is an unasked question). They list things that should be overcome/prepared for (by the .gov) but other than identifying that we are screwed because of the cascading failures across society they say we can fix it all...with enough money and time.

They did note that many of our infrastructure components that would fail are long lead time items, years long, and not manufactured here anymore...another unasked question was 'are those long lead time items being manufactured by the potential enemies who may have launched the EMP?' Why yes, yes they are.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

People lived through the Carrington event of 1860 so I'm sure those who prep will find a way .

 

[Cameramonkey]

People lived through the Carrington event of 1860 so I'm sure those who prep will find a way .

But those werent relative morons that relied 100% on electricity and electric devices. They still had real world skills outside of getting their sustenance by calling Dominos or putting a hot pocket in the microwave. They were still cooking on coal or wood stoves. (or knew how to)

its an apples/oranges comparison.

 

[jbombelli]

Just light up the gas grill and eat your neighbors.

Problem solved.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

People lived through the Carrington event of 1860 so I'm sure those who prep will find a way .

Consumers' Research » EMP White Paper


Vulnerabilities of other Critical Infrastructure Sectors
While risk to the electric grid is the largest concern for an EMP event, the impacts to key industries are key to understanding thefull scope of the EMP threat. While some sectors, such as telecommunications, may be directly impacted by the EMP, theprimary factor driving degradation would typically be the long-term loss of electricity. The below discussion highlights some ofthe most severe vulnerabilities of other critical infrastructure to EMP:

Telecommunications –
The telecommunications grid – the mix of equipment necessary to send and receive voice,data, video, and other messaging, including internet and phone networks – is almost entirely dependent on sustainedelectricity production. Backup generators may provide emergency service for days, but cannot accommodate prolongedoutages unless generator fuel supplies are secured. Communications are also considered vital to the recovery of othercritical infrastructures, and any prolonged outages may have detrimental impacts to long-term recovery efforts.Additionally, long telecommunications lines and some fiber-optic cables (with repeaters) are vulnerable to E3 and solarevents, and telecom SCADAs would be vulnerable to the E1 component of a nuclear HEMP.

Banking and Finance –
Our banking and financial services system is extremely reliant on digital elements that requireelectricity and telecommunications infrastructure to be working. Even though our banking system has some of the mostrobust protections and recovery mechanisms for cyber and physical threats, these mechanisms are not designed tosustain operations during prolonged blackouts unless a source of fuel is available to backup generators. In the event ofprolonged electricity shortage, significant effort would be required to operate stock exchanges, banks, and ensure citizensaccess to their financial resources.

Fuel/Energy Infrastructure –
Fuel is the pre-cursor to many of our other infrastructure sectors, including theelectricity sector. Oil and natural gas account for over 60% of our domestic fuel consumption, and these resources aredistributed across the country along long pipelines. These pipelines are monitored and controlled by electronic systemssimilar to those which control the electric grid, and are thus vulnerable to E1 from a nuclear HEMP. Beyond the directEMP vulnerability, like other sectors the fuel and energy assets would be unable to function fully during prolongedelectricity blackouts. Slowdown in fuel production and refinement would lead to longer, more difficult recovery of electricpower and other critical infrastructures.

Transportation Infrastructure –
While some might picture the impact of an EMP event on transportation masstraffic jams caused by incapacitated cars, the real vulnerability is slightly less dramatic. Various transportation modeswould be impacted by EMP in different ways. The immediate effect on roads and the railway system would be the failureof signals due to electrical outage. Until backup power was available, there would be significant disruption of fuel supplies.Even if airports and seaports maintained sources of backup power, a prolonged, large scale blackout cloud causesignificant delays in the delivery of fuel which would hamper air travel and maritime cargo industries.

Food Infrastructure –
Our food infrastructure is extremely dependent on other infrastructures, especially electricity,fuel and transportation. In the event of a severe EMP event, production could be impacted by the inoperability ofindustrial farming equipment due to reductions in fuel availability. Likewise, fuel shortages could cause shipping delays,while long-term blackouts would almost certainly cause issues for food processors and large regional food storagefacilities.

Water Supply Infrastructure –
The continued survival and health of our population relies on the availability of cleanand accessible drinking water. EMP can cause disruptions to the water supply through malfunctioning SCADA and long-term lack of electricity. Long-term blackouts can also disrupt wastewater removal systems and industrial water delivery toother critical sectors, such as farming.

Emergency Services –
Emergency services are critical to the preservation of law and order, as well as health andsafety. On the local, state, and Federal level, millions of firefighters, police officers, doctors, and various other publicservants provide these critical services. Prolonged electricity blackouts or loss of telecommunications capabilities cancause disruption to these services in the short term. Ironically, a crisis situation such as a severe EMP event would almostdefinitely generate higher than normal demand for emergency services, as was observed after severe events such as9/11 and Hurricane Katrina

 

[Thor]

Just light up the gas grill and eat your neighbors.

Problem solved.

Perfect!

 

[Thor]

Water supply will be a big one...lots of folks west of Ol' Miss are going to die with no access to surface water.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Water supply will be a big one...lots of folks west of Ol' Miss are going to die with no access to surface water.

And lots of them east of there will die because they cant simply turn a knob and get it out of the tap.

 

[teddy12b]

Mindset to survive is #1.
Air is #2.
Water is #3.

I don't think most people east or west of the Ol' Miss are going to be hard nosed enough to make it to #3. In today's world, how many people have actually boiled water from a questionable source for their consumption? That's different from turning a knob on the stove to boil tap water for your Mac & Cheese. I hate to guess how many people would walk right past muddy water or creek water because it looked dirty or smelled funny instead of knowing how to purify it and make it drinkable. I hope and pray the day never comes when an EMP/whatever would hit the US because half our population will be gone within a month.

 

[bobzilla]

I hope and pray the day never comes when an EMP/whatever would hit the US because half our population will be gone within a month.

Meh, it might not be so bad. There'd be more room to spread out.

 

[teddy12b]

Meh, it might not be so bad. There'd be more room to spread out.

More room for sure, but less running water, less electricity, and other nice amenities that I like. As much as I like to think I have or I am prepared it sure is nice to get Pizza delivered at a moments notice