common sense carry

[LEaSH]

Are you happy now, Larry? Are you?

 

[tdoom15]

#1, I said MOST people I see/meet that OC are in it for the attention. This is also the common consensus among the numerous people and instructors/leo/mil people i talk to. You said CC is your primary means of carry so I would not expect you to fall into that category.

#2, I don't necessarily care how people carry, I was not trying to convince anyone as you seem to suggest, but rather to tell the OP he is wasting his time as most OC people don't care about the tactical advantages/disadvantages, but only the social advantages. I think that's evident by the pro/cons arguments both sides make.
In the same token, if I can I help someone see another side of the coin, I will try to do so, just as I'm sure most here would if they saw someone buying a lorcin for their HD gun.

 

[LEaSH]

OK. How do you know that they're doing it for the attention?

 

[tdoom15]

As far as "does the bad guy have the training to recognize the fact that they should take out the biggest threat first". Hell yes, are you serious?

It's common sense for one, and if that isn't enough, these guys have grown up on the streets and have had to fend for themselves for many years. A lot of them are hardened street thugs who have been doing this for a while with no regard to feelings or human life, and with that comes experience...and get this, they will likely have a lot more experience in violent encounters than you will. You will likely be behind the curve as they will not hesitate to take your life or seriously injure you if it can profit them in some way.

 

[Bunnykid68]

What are these benefits of conceal carry again? Besides hiding it like a criminal would? No, I am not calling you a criminal.

This ^^^^^^ dont forget this ^^^^^^^

 

[Rhoadmar]

This ^^^^^^ dont forget this ^^^^^^^

Yes. This.

 

[Mark 1911]

If you are not a member of law enforcement and you're open carrying, IMHO, your losing the element of surprise and potentially inviting trouble where it other wise wouldn't be.

I really have to fight my sarcastic side here. When I first started reading this post, I thought it was going to be something other than the same old thing. I was wrong.

if you happen to be one of those people who feel big and think you are gaining respect of others because you have your weapon out there

If you really think this is the only possible reason for OC, then perhaps you are missing something, and should not be so quick to form negative (and false) perceptions of others. Please, grow up.

 

[CPT Nervous]

I think this whole thread is silly, but there is an easy answer the final question. For us to hear about it, first, the news has to see OC as significant enough to report it. The news may simply report, "Five gunmen entered First National Bank, shot the security guard and a customer, and got away with $15 million." It probably would say, "Five gunmen entered First National Bank, shot the armed security guard and LockStocksAndBarrel, an avid participant on INGO who open carries a Glock 17 in a De Santis holster, two mags loaded with 9mm Federal Hydroshock rounds, and a backup S&W revolver chambered in .357 magnum. He got his belt from Beltman for the stiffness and integrity of the leather construction. He is now recovering at home from a relatively minor gunshot wound, and he's decided to start wearing body armor, while upgrading his caliber from 9mm to .45 ACP." This gun stuff that we like so much just doesn't mean as much to the rest of the world. Look at how many homicides and rapes there are. When the news does report them, does it report the victims' armament? Keep in mind that a good number of the victims are criminals, and they're likely armed.

Second, the OC guy has to be at the bank when the well-orchestrated robbery is going down. This may be the real obstacle. OC is rare in most parts of the country. We're lucky in that Indiana permits both OC and CC. There may just be no data for this because there has never been an OC guy at a bank robbery (for an example of a crime).

That's absolutely ludicrous. Banks don't have that kind of cash on hand.

 

[LEaSH]

Couldn't even recoup the cost of ammo nowadays.

 

[tdoom15]

OK. How do you know that they're doing it for the attention?

I've seen many people HERE (in the OC vs CC thread) state that they enjoy strangers coming to ask them about their gun. I've met MANY people who OC who don't really have any business carrying in the first place. A lot of times it is evident by attitude, gear selection (uncle mikes softy, fobus, etc), the way they handle their firearm, etc. It's pretty clear. Can I prove it in black and white by reading their minds? Obviously not, but give me a break. If that's what you need, this further proves my point of the types of arguments that OC'ers hang on to.

If you look at the tactical advantages of CC, they so FAR outweigh the benefits of OC it's not even funny. Therefore it's pretty reasonable to deduce that there are other motives present, when they shouldn't be. Survival is about fitting in, why someone would want to stand out in the crowd is far beyond my comprehension.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Yes. This.

Thanks for the moral support

 

[Jack Burton]

#1, I said MOST people I see/meet that OC are in it for the attention. This is also the common consensus among the numerous people and instructors/leo/mil people i talk to. .

Sooo... you're asking non-open carry people why open carry people open carry? And you expect them to know?

Do you often ask PETA members why others go fishing? Or Green Party members on how to frack your backyard? Or atheists how to decorate the Christmas Tree?

 

[Bunnykid68]

I've seen many people HERE (in the OC vs CC thread) state that they enjoy strangers coming to ask them about their gun. I've met MANY people who OC who don't really have any business carrying in the first place. A lot of times it is evident by attitude, gear selection (uncle mikes softy, fobus, etc), the way they handle their firearm, etc. It's pretty clear. Can I prove it in black and white by reading their minds? Obviously not, but give me a break. If that's what you need, this further proves my point of the types of arguments that OC'ers hang on to.

If you look at the tactical advantages of CC, they so FAR outweigh the benefits of OC it's not even funny. Therefore it's pretty reasonable to deduce that there are other motives present, when they shouldn't be. Survival is about fitting in, why someone would want to stand out in the crowd is far beyond my comprehension.

You keep talking about these advantages but not enlightening us with what these advantages are.

Cops OC for a reason dont they? Ant idea what that reasoning is?

 

[Jack Burton]

I've met MANY people who OC who don't really have any business carrying in the first place. A lot of times it is evident by attitude, gear selection (uncle mikes softy, fobus, etc), the way they handle their firearm, etc. It's pretty clear. Can I prove it in black and white by reading their minds? Obviously not,

How about proving it by sharing the thousands of actual horror stories these LTC holders are causing across the state and country. Or perhaps you only have hundreds. I'd settle for a couple of dozen. But you can't, can you.

 

[CPT Nervous]

If you look at the tactical advantages of CC, they so FAR outweigh the benefits of OC it's not even funny. Therefore it's pretty reasonable to deduce that there are other motives present, when they shouldn't be. Survival is about fitting in, why someone would want to stand out in the crowd is far beyond my comprehension.

What tactical advantage? Don't even say "element of surprise." Surprise is an offensive tactic, not a defensive one. That tactic has the enormous drawback of only being able to work after the attack has already started. It's an extremely asinine argument.

Also, I want to stand out. Let the wolf take a sheep. He'll leave the shepherds alone.

 

[TheFireArmorer]

I realize we live a "free society" where folks (like me) have many and varied opinions. I know what I'm going to say will make some angry. I'm, frankly, past caring.

I carry concealed everyday, most recently with my M&P Shield in my new G-Code Incog holster. I consider it a responsibility, not unlike carrying insurance, in order to protect my family, myself and those around me - there are a lot of bad, bad people out there. Just lately I've seen more open carry folks while I'm out and about than I've seen in all my life. I sort of understand the thinking but I just think it's dumb.

To me, whether we can or can't open carry isn't even part of the issue. If you are not a member of law enforcement and you're open carrying, IMHO, your losing the element of surprise and potentially inviting trouble where it other wise wouldn't be. I've thought about this for quite a while. The positives for allowing others to know without a doubt that you are armed doesn't even come close to the negatives.

And I'm just going to say it, if you happen to be one of those people who feel big and think you are gaining respect of others because you have your weapon out there, no offense intended, grow up please.

 

[Hoosierman]

Holy smokes guys, I can't even read a page of this thread without a new page of posts going up. I'll never finish it!

 

[LEaSH]

yeah, but I'm not as tactical as you tdoom15

I've seen many people HERE (in the OC vs CC thread) state that they enjoy strangers coming to ask them about their gun. I've met MANY people who OC who don't really have any business carrying in the first place. A lot of times it is evident by attitude, gear selection (uncle mikes softy, fobus, etc), the way they handle their firearm, etc. It's pretty clear. Can I prove it in black and white by reading their minds? Obviously not, but give me a break. If that's what you need, this further proves my point of the types of arguments that OC'ers hang on to.


If you look at the tactical advantages of CC, they so FAR outweigh the benefits of OC it's not even funny. Therefore it's pretty reasonable to deduce that there are other motives present, when they shouldn't be. Survival is about fitting in, why someone would want to stand out in the crowd is far beyond my comprehension.

I ride my bicycle everywhere I don't need to drive a car or truck. You ever try to pedal with a 4" combat magnum IWB? not comfortable.
I've yet to get jumped riding while carrying OWB. I've never gotten hassled in Irvington - which is 50%-60% borderline ghetto - and never got into any confrontation.

Maybe I haven't crossed the right crazy one yet, but if will make other people happy, I'll just hide it. Because after all, I certainly don't want any attention. I don't even want to be noticed at all.

 

[Pinchaser]

I realize we live a "free society" where folks (like me) have many and varied opinions. I know what I'm going to say will make some angry. I'm, frankly, past caring.

I carry concealed everyday, most recently with my M&P Shield in my new G-Code Incog holster. I consider it a responsibility, not unlike carrying insurance, in order to protect my family, myself and those around me - there are a lot of bad, bad people out there. Just lately I've seen more open carry folks while I'm out and about than I've seen in all my life. I sort of understand the thinking but I just think it's dumb.

To me, whether we can or can't open carry isn't even part of the issue. If you are not a member of law enforcement and you're open carrying, IMHO, your losing the element of surprise and potentially inviting trouble where it other wise wouldn't be. I've thought about this for quite a while. The positives for allowing others to know without a doubt that you are armed doesn't even come close to the negatives.

And I'm just going to say it, if you happen to be one of those people who feel big and think you are gaining respect of others because you have your weapon out there, no offense intended, grow up please.

Couldn't agree more, Larry. Actually, the overhwheming majority of those who carry responsibly also agree with you. Unfortunately, those who seem to live on gun forums 24x7 aren't always representative of those who carry responsibly. Just know that most gun owners feel exactly the same way as you.

 

[Mark 1911]

Surprise is an offensive tactic, not a defensive one. That tactic has the enormous drawback of only being able to work after the attack has already started. It's an extremely asinine argument.

Finally, something in this thread that I've never heard before. This is a GREAT point!

As usual, learned something new on INGO today!