competition pistol setup help

[netsecurity]

I'm a total newb to steel IDPA and such, but I can shoot well, so I can't wait to give it a go. I am ready to do more than just punch holes in static targets for sure. Anyways, being a former drummer, I know how important equipment can be. Since I know almost nothing about competing I am taking a beginners course, but I still want to get my gear ready for that. After all, buying gear is part of the fun too...

My new M&P 9mm full size just arrived today. It doesn't have the magazine disconnect, only the internal lock (got it cheap), no safety, and came with Trijicon night sights . I have five 17 round magazines and plenty of ammo. That's it. I thought I had a holster, but no holster at all. EDIT: I also have a gun belt and double magazine carrier (and eyes and ears covered).

What else do I really need? A trigger upgrade? What kind of holster? Red dot?

 

[netsecurity]

NE body?

 

[95wrangler]

Patience grasshopper, Its early yet!

 

[sbcman]

I'm a total newb to steel IDPA and such, but I can shoot well, so I can't wait to give it a go. I am ready to do more than just punch holes in static targets for sure. Anyways, being a former drummer, I know how important equipment can be. Since I know almost nothing about competing I am taking a beginners course, but I still want to get my gear ready for that. After all, buying gear is part of the fun too...

My new M&P 9mm full size just arrived today. It doesn't have the magazine disconnect, only the internal lock (got it cheap), no safety, and came with Trijicon night sights . I have five 17 round magazines and plenty of ammo. That's it. I thought I had a holster, but no holster at all.

What else do I really need? A trigger upgrade? What kind of holster? Red dot?

If the trigger feels good, you can let it be. If not, you can APEX it or just learn it through practice. I have M&Ps with both. Don't worry about a red dot. Definitely get a holster, some of us run Serpas, some run Ravens or other Kydex models.

You've got everything else you need. Dryfire practice, practice drawing, learning transitions and live fire practice will go much further for you than any other equipment (except the holster- kinda need that).

ETA: You do have mag holsters, right? Also for IDPA you'll need a cool fishing vest (or just a button up shirt or regular shirt if you CC). A quality belt, if you don't have one, would be beneficial not only for the game but everything else.

 

[netsecurity]

Oh yea, I did just order a double magazine carrier with open top, and I have good belts too.

I have Serpa holsters for my other carry guns, but I thought I would need something quicker for this. Do I really need a fishing vest or was that a joke? This trigger, unlike my used m&p9c, has a "bouncy" reset, so maybe I should get an Apex.

 

[Rob377]

Oh yea, I did just order a double magazine carrier with open top, and I have good belts too.

I have Serpa holsters for my other carry guns, but I thought I would need something quicker for this. Do I really need a fishing vest or was that a joke? This trigger, unlike my used m&p9c, has a "bouncy" reset, so maybe I should get an Apex.

Most stages at an IDPA match require a "cover garment." The idea is that IDPA is supposed to be more "practical" and in line with how people actually carry concealed.

But it's still a game, so many IDPA competitors wear fancy tactical fishing vests as their cover garment.

Ditch the Serpas. They're crap. (my personal opinion, that lock is horrible)

Comp-tac and Blade-tech would be good alternatives.

 

[cundiff5535]

One word: APEX

 

[netsecurity]

I filed my sear down like the Apex sear. I'll probably get the Apex duty trigger kit at some point. I'll get a vest. Anything missing?

 

[Rob377]

You took a file to your sear? Seriously?

 

[bullet]

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm wanting to start in competitive shooting also. I have a Glock 35 for this and a CR speed holster. My G35 has 3 magazines with Dawson base Pads making them 22 shot. It also has Heinie Slant Pro Rear Sight, Dawson Precision Fiber Optic Front Sight, Full Length Tungsten Non-Captured Guide Rod with several different main springs, Storm lake barrel and a Dawson mag well. The trigger components have been polished and has a 2.8 lbs trigger, plus the extended slide and mag release.
I have plans for a Glock worx trigger soon. I'm still learning about the different classes and what I can compete in with this gun.

I've been working 10 hour days 7 days a week right now and don't have time to go to any events, but with the extra money I'm getting the gun ready as well as the equipment I'll need.

I'm like you part of the fun is buying the stuff.

 

[netsecurity]

You took a file to your sear? Seriously?

YES. I didn't just use trial and error though, I followed the guide below that makes the factory sear basically into the Apex Hard Sear. It is much better, with an easier break, and an audible, crisp reset. The only problem left with the trigger is the firing pin block plunger, which is making the uptake gritty. The remedy for this is in the same instructions: Filing down the FP block plunger will basically be the same as the Apex USB. After I file the block plunger, it should be more like a match grade trigger, and without any non-factory parts! Plus, it's all free. The Apex DCAEK just comes with the Hard Sear and USB described above, plus a couple springs, which I don't care to change, so I think this is a good guide:

S&W M&P Trigger Job

 

[nomadicmutt]

YES. I didn't just use trial and error though, I followed the guide below that makes the factory sear basically into the Apex Hard Sear. It is much better, with an easier break, and an audible, crisp reset. The only problem left with the trigger is the firing pin block plunger, which is making the uptake gritty. The remedy for this is in the same instructions: Filing down the FP block plunger will basically be the same as the Apex USB. After I file the block plunger, it should be more like a match grade trigger, and without any non-factory parts! Plus, it's all free. The Apex DCAEK just comes with the Hard Sear and USB described above, plus a couple springs, which I don't care to change, so I think this is a good guide:

S&W M&P Trigger Job

Never trust a website who's colors make your eyes bleed.

Remind me not to borrow your guns on the range.
No offense. I just wouldn't trust even my metalworker friends to mess with gunsmithing, especially on the sear...

 

[netsecurity]

You wouldn't use an Apex sear? Look at the pictures, its practically identical. You won't be borrowing my pistol anyways. Worst case scenario is that it shoots worse than before and I buy an Apex, sheesh. Are you telling me that you guys never have polished the internals of the action to make it smoother? There are two places to sand the sear in the instructions for the m&p, and both results are nearly identical to the Apex sear, except I didn't go as extreme as the Apex where the trigger bar activates the sear, or where the back of the sear releases the firing pin. I think if you've never polished a trigger then you are missing out. This is the third gun I've worked on, and each time have only had very positive results. Sometimes the metal is just not smooth from the factory and a little sanding on the trigger bar without needing instructions makes a huge difference in removing grit.

One food thing I found out when popping out the sear housing is that my gun has no internal lock, or magazine disconnect! Hooray, I didn't want those, I only bought this gun because it was $399 with Trijicon sights.

 

[singlestacksig]

IF you want to shoot IDPA a red dot sight won't be allowed anyway..
are you sure it is ok to file down those parts? some of the S&W parts are formed by heating metal powder in a casting.. it makes a hard surface , but if you file it down to far you can have a bigger problem than you want..

 

[Cowboy1629]

Have you taken a look at this post yet? It will probably answer a bunch of your questions. Plus if you post in the shooting sports section you might get additional replies to your question since that is where most of the competition guys visit the most.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...cs_a_white_paper_for_newbies.html#post1664502

 

[netsecurity]

IF you want to shoot IDPA a red dot sight won't be allowed anyway..
are you sure it is ok to file down those parts? some of the S&W parts are formed by heating metal powder in a casting.. it makes a hard surface , but if you file it down to far you can have a bigger problem than you want..

Thanks for the tip about red dots, they cost too much anyways. I'm getting upset about all this soft metal talk though.

I could only find one possible failure after a stock trigger job on an m&p, and I bet money the guy in the link below had the sear disengagement arm down (and that he very well may have been an idiot). Someone should have at least asked him to raise the sear disengagement bar as the very first first step in troubleshooting, don't you think? Why did everyone do the same thing you are doing here, which is to jump straight to conclusion that the sear will fail due to "soft metal"? How would soft metal cause the sear to not engage at all? He would've seen an impression from the trigger arm embedded in his sear ramp if it was too soft, or it would've visibly broken off. Maybe he shaved off so much that there just wasn't any contact at all, but I still find it suspicious how no one asked him to raise the sear disengagement arm, and it really makes me wonder if those fear mongerers even own m&P's at all, or if they're just Apex fanboys.

M&P 45 Not functioning/Update, in last post. - AR15.Com Archive

Asides from that one lame account, I haven't found any other mention of problems from trigger jobs using factory sears. I'm quite comfortable with mine, and it is an improvement. Does anyone have any type of proof that soft metal will "get you" if you polish your m&p sear? I think the Apex "Hard Sear" marketing is causing a lot of unnecessary fear in order to promote their sales. Prove me wrong and I'll be forced to buy one.

 

[cyprant]

Blade tech holster and anither double mag pouch and you are set. I woukd probably go with f/o sights over nights but youre fine with whatcha got! Unholstered.com great prices

I would run it how it is. Let the trigger work itself out... mine is smooth as butter after maybe 2500 rounds and maybe 2000 dry fires...

 

[singlestacksig]

Thanks for the tip about red dots, they cost too much anyways. I'm getting upset about all this soft metal talk though.

I could only find one possible failure after a stock trigger job on an m&p, and I bet money the guy in the link below had the sear disengagement arm down (and that he very well may have been an idiot). Someone should have at least asked him to raise the sear disengagement bar as the very first first step in troubleshooting, don't you think? Why did everyone do the same thing you are doing here, which is to jump straight to conclusion that the sear will fail due to "soft metal"? How would soft metal cause the sear to not engage at all? He would've seen an impression from the trigger arm embedded in his sear ramp if it was too soft, or it would've visibly broken off. Maybe he shaved off so much that there just wasn't any contact at all, but I still find it suspicious how no one asked him to raise the sear disengagement arm, and it really makes me wonder if those fear mongerers even own m&P's at all, or if they're just Apex fanboys.

M&P 45 Not functioning/Update, in last post. - AR15.Com Archive

Asides from that one lame account, I haven't found any other mention of problems from trigger jobs using factory sears. I'm quite comfortable with mine, and it is an improvement. Does anyone have any type of proof that soft metal will "get you" if you polish your m&p sear? I think the Apex "Hard Sear" marketing is causing a lot of unnecessary fear in order to promote their sales. Prove me wrong and I'll be forced to buy one.

a lot of people brought up the same concerns because they can be a real thing..
many internal parts of guns , especially S&W 3rd gen, are made by powder being put in a mold and heat & pressure hardens it into a solid.. but it is sometimes only solid on the ssurface.. if you cut or file the part it will remove the hard surface & leave a soft metal face..

the gun will work fine for a while... then some day you will pull the trigger and it could go full auto on you.. or go off while in your holster...
this is why there are after market parts for some guns out there... ones that are made to diferent dimension and then HARDENED...

 

[HICKMAN]

Never trust a website who's colors make your eyes bleed.

Remind me not to borrow your guns on the range.
No offense. I just wouldn't trust even my metalworker friends to mess with gunsmithing, especially on the sear...

That's kind of naive, that website/trigger job was around before APEX started doing them...

 

[singlestacksig]

That's kind of naive, that website/trigger job was around before APEX started doing them...

apex does not do work on the sear, they replace it with a hardened one..

BIG difference.. for $40 get the drop in replacement one..
you stand to lose that much in match fees if you get DQ for putting a bullet in the ground near your feet or going full auto...