Compressor to heat pump conversion

[BobDaniels]

My home has central air (compressor) for cooling and electric radiant heat from the ceiling for heating. The house is very well insulated and the radiant heat can keep the house quite warm even on the coldest of days. However, it is VERY expensive to run. Last January’s bill was more than 4 months worth of summer electric bills! Since the house already has forced air, I am considering changing to a heat pump so I can heat and cool the house from a single device.

My question is: Can I have the compressor swapped out for a heat pump? It seems there would be more to it than just swapping out units but my profession is not in HVAC. I have also considered adding propane heat to the existing furnace, but everyone (including the Mrs) thinks I am nuts for considering propane.

So, I am turning to the HVAC experts on INGO for input on swapping out a compressor for heat pump. Is it as easy as swapping one unit for the other?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Lectric102002]

My home has central air (compressor) for cooling and electric radiant heat from the ceiling for heating. The house is very well insulated and the radiant heat can keep the house quite warm even on the coldest of days. However, it is VERY expensive to run. Last January’s bill was more than 4 months worth of summer electric bills! Since the house already has forced air, I am considering changing to a heat pump so I can heat and cool the house from a single device.

My question is: Can I have the compressor swapped out for a heat pump? It seems there would be more to it than just swapping out units but my profession is not in HVAC. I have also considered adding propane heat to the existing furnace, but everyone (including the Mrs) thinks I am nuts for considering propane.

So, I am turning to the HVAC experts on INGO for input on swapping out a compressor for heat pump. Is it as easy as swapping one unit for the other?

Thank you in advance.

I'm sure Churchmouse will weigh in and probably correct me, but as I understand it, you would need to change out the outdoor unit, probably the lineset, and the thermostat. If you want to convert to propane, you would need to change out the air handler (furnace) as well. Unless it's already gas-fired.

 

[BobDaniels]

Thank you.

I will need to take a closer look at the air handler, but I would guess it is not equiped for gas. I doubt I will convert to propane as that will be an uphill battle with the other decision maker of the house and she's even more stubborn than me!

 

[Lectric102002]

There are two schools of thought on heat pumps in Indiana. I've heard that they have no place here due to our climate zone. I had one in our previous house with resistance heat and it worked just "okay". We now have a larger home with gas heat and a standard split system and our bills are lower than the smaller house with the heat pump.

YMMV

 

[BobDaniels]

I am actually against the heat pump idea due to past experiences of it not keeping up in temps below 20. I want to replace the air handler with a propane furnce (keeping the existing A/C) and pick up a 1000 gallon tank.

That said, i've been told by a non hvac person that the newer heat pumps do better in the winter than they used to. As far as I know, the only thing that has changed is the refrigerant? I know next to nothing about HVAC other than personal experience of being cold in the winter with heat pump.

 

[indyblue]

There are two schools of thought on heat pumps in Indiana. I've heard that they have no place here due to our climate zone. I had one in our previous house with resistance heat and it worked just "okay". We now have a larger home with gas heat and a standard split system and our bills are lower than the smaller house with the heat pump.

YMMV

+1

Our new (old - 1957) house is 3X the sq/ft of our first home with heat pump and has a heat pump/gas heat combo and our power/gas bills are lower than the the smaller house. The heat pump works well in the transition months, but nothing is as efficient as gas when it gets cold.

It doesn't hurt that this house is clad in Bedford stone and keeps a very stable temp inside. When our A/C died on a 104 degree day, the inside only got up to 82 by the next morning.

 

[looney2ns]

My home has central air (compressor) for cooling and electric radiant heat from the ceiling for heating. The house is very well insulated and the radiant heat can keep the house quite warm even on the coldest of days. However, it is VERY expensive to run. Last January’s bill was more than 4 months worth of summer electric bills! Since the house already has forced air, I am considering changing to a heat pump so I can heat and cool the house from a single device.

My question is: Can I have the compressor swapped out for a heat pump? It seems there would be more to it than just swapping out units but my profession is not in HVAC. I have also considered adding propane heat to the existing furnace, but everyone (including the Mrs) thinks I am nuts for considering propane.

So, I am turning to the HVAC experts on INGO for input on swapping out a compressor for heat pump. Is it as easy as swapping one unit for the other?

Thank you in advance.

Not that simple of change. My 20 yr old heat pump handles my very well insulated house just fine down to about 5 degrees. Newer heat pumps have higher output temps as I understand it.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I'll chime in to say my body hates my heat pump, but my wallet loves it.

yes, I said WALLET!!!!

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Yeah you're probably looking at a new condenser unit, maybe a lineset, evaporator coil w/ TXV (if you switch refrigerants), and probably a new thermostat. Not exactly cheap. $1,500 - $2,000 just in equipment depending on tonnage. Plus paying somebody a day or two to put it in correctly (yes that means pressure testing with nitrogen and pulling a 500 micron vacuum). But then again, propane isn't exactly going for pennies either.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I don't mind heat pumps. The idea is pretty simple. In cooling mode it takes the heat from inside your house and moves it outside, and in heating mode in takes the heat from outside and moves it inside your house. There's still a lot of heat in that air even when it gets below freezing. It doesn't "feel" warm coming out of the register though, that's why most people don't like it. Discharge air is probly 90-95ish degrees which is ok for heating a house but doesn't feel great to your 98 degree body.

 

[BobDaniels]

I don't mind heat pumps. The idea is pretty simple. In cooling mode it takes the heat from inside your house and moves it outside, and in heating mode in takes the heat from outside and moves it inside your house. There's still a lot of heat in that air even when it gets below freezing. It doesn't "feel" warm coming out of the register though, that's why not people don't like it. Discharge air is probly 90-95ish degrees which is ok for heating a house but doesn't feel great to your 98 degree body.

I've lived with heat pumps most of my life. The house I grew up in didn't seem too bad in the winter, but I was also a kid and didn't really notice things like that, plus we always had some sort of space heater going in the living room. The houses i've lived in since then (paying the bills) had much higher electric bills in the winter and it seemed like the furnance never shut off. I can think of two seperate houses where it never was able to get the house to the thermostat setting of 68 on the days it was teens and lower. I do not need it to be balmy inside the house, but I do want it comfortable enough where I am not cold wearing socks, sweat pants, and sweat shirt.

The number you threw out of 1500 to 2000 is about what I paid in electric bills for Jan, Feb, and March this past winter for the radiant heat. I wondered if I could power a generator with how fast the meter was spinning!

Propane is not exactly cheap either, but I filled my little 120 gallon tank for 1.61 a gallon a few weeks back. If I get 1000 gallon tank, that should easily last the winter with enough left over to go into the following winter. That would also be enough to power the backup generator I am looking to buy along with a connection to my grill so I can stop filling the 20 pounders.

While my house is right at 40 years old, it is brick exterior, 2x6 exterior walls, newer Pella windows, and about 2 feet of insullation in the attic. There is no draft in the house either. In the summer, the A/C barely runs and the house stays a nice 72 degrees.

 

[BobDaniels]

Yeah you're probably looking at a new condenser unit, maybe a lineset, evaporator coil w/ TXV (if you switch refrigerants), and probably a new thermostat. Not exactly cheap. $1,500 - $2,000 just in equipment depending on tonnage. Plus paying somebody a day or two to put it in correctly (yes that means pressure testing with nitrogen and pulling a 500 micron vacuum). But then again, propane isn't exactly going for pennies either.

Based on this info , it appears I will need to repalce everything but the air handler and the thermostat. (the existing thermostat has a heat setting, just doesn't do anything when you set it to heat and crank up the temp.) I doubt the existing air handler has the emergency heat coil thing and I have no idea if that matters or not.

 

[Cameramonkey]

In this area, you WILL need the emergency heat coil. Also a heat pump thermo is different than a standard thermo.

I'm not an HVAC guy, but based on my discussions with da mouse, it all would need to be replaced.

 

[Lectric102002]

In this area, you WILL need the emergency heat coil. Also a heat pump thermo is different than a standard thermo.

I'm not an HVAC guy, but based on my discussions with da mouse, it all would need to be replaced.

He has radiant heat. Probably seperately controlled.

 

[BobDaniels]

In this area, you WILL need the emergency heat coil. Also a heat pump thermo is different than a standard thermo.

I'm not an HVAC guy, but based on my discussions with da mouse, it all would need to be replaced.

Gotcha on the thermostat. Given the cost of the other stuff, the thermostat should be a drop in the bucket. ;-)

It's too bad the existing heat system is so inefficient because it heats the heck out of the house. From this past winter, I have a picture of my indoor/outdoor thermometer reading 0 outside and 77 in my living room. I did not keep the entire house that warm and in fact kept most of the rooms very close to the lowest setting. However, the living room and our bedroom did have temp set higher.

 

[BobDaniels]

He has radiant heat. Probably seperately controlled.

The radiant heat has a dial in each room. The thermostat for the A/C is near the center of the house.

 

[Lectric102002]

Nope not likely !

Uh, you might want to quote the post you are replying to.

Just a thought.

 

[HoughMade]

My Dad had had an open loop geothermal heat pump since I was about 12 or 13 (roughly 30 years). He likes it very much and it is very cost efficient. He lives in Southwest Michigan with ample water at a shallow depth and good drainage to a pond and drywell. It works well for him, but geothermal is kind of a big investment.

He has a backup oil furnace, but he has to get below 0 outside with wind (old farm house, not very tight) before that even become a factor.

 

[BobDaniels]

My Dad had had an open loop geothermal heat pump since I was about 12 or 13 (roughly 30 years). He likes it very much and it is very cost efficient. He lives in Southwest Michigan with ample water at a shallow depth and good drainage to a pond and drywell. It works well for him, but geothermal is kind of a big investment.

He has a backup oil furnace, but he has to get below 0 outside with wind (old farm house, not very tight) before that even become a factor.

Our last house had a closed loop geothermal heat pump and we were less than impressed. I did a decent job of cooling in the summer, but on the hottest of days, it would not keep up. That house did have vaulted ceilings and skylights, so that might have been a factor. It did not work well in the winter. We had annual maintenance and was always told it is functioning as it should. When I told them it would not keep up in the winter, they told me that the way it is with a heat pump.

My brother has an open loop geothermal, also in MI, and he regrets having it installed. I don't recall the exact complaints, however.

Geothermal is a non-starter for us.

I really do like the radiant heat. We have future plans of doing hardwood or laminate throughout the house and that might be a good time to install the radiant heat in the floor where it belongs. I would have thought, even in the 70's, that they knew heat rises?

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Our last house had a closed loop geothermal heat pump and we were less than impressed. I did a decent job of cooling in the summer, but on the hottest of days, it would not keep up. That house did have vaulted ceilings and skylights, so that might have been a factor. It did not work well in the winter. We had annual maintenance and was always told it is functioning as it should. When I told them it would not keep up in the winter, they told me that the way it is with a heat pump.

My brother has an open loop geothermal, also in MI, and he regrets having it installed. I don't recall the exact complaints, however.

Geothermal is a non-starter for us.

I really do like the radiant heat. We have future plans of doing hardwood or laminate throughout the house and that might be a good time to install the radiant heat in the floor where it belongs. I would have thought, even in the 70's, that they knew heat rises?

If there was nothing wrong with it and it wasn't keeping up than it wasn't sized correctly. Don't blame the type of system. Blame the people that charged you for the maintenance.


Technically the heat of a radiator doesn't "rise". It radiates. Google the difference between conduction, convection, and radiation.