Concealed Carry on Campus and Campus Violence

[dasprung]

Hey everybody I'm new here to INGunOwners but I thought I would start one of my posts concerning the policies that many of our states educational institutions have with CC. I go to class at IUPUI and the recent shootings in California, and then Ohio, and Virginia Tech, and on and on got me thinking: Why is it that a college or university can justify having policies in place to restrict concealed carry (you'll get expelled if you have a firearm on campus) yet gun violence in places of higher education seems to be common occurence? And not just gun violence college students seem to be a "prey item of choice" for other violent crime. If educational institutions like IUPUI have a no tolerance policy concerning weapons of any kind (knives included) than why do we have shootings like Virginia Tech or Oakland? I mean no one gets a pat down like the TSA does in the entrance of each building and even then I can still transport a firearm in a plane. It just doesn't make sense to me AT ALL!

 

[indoorsoccerfrea]

Preaching to the choir, dasprung, preaching to the choir. While the colleges themselves may put rules in place forbidding it, carrying on a college campus in Indiana is NOT illegal. So basically, you can be expelled but not charged with anything. Some people may tell you that "concealed means concealed", or that you have to determine what is more important to you.

I think you will find that many people on here agree with you. Colleges should allow people to carry, as statistics support the theory that more guns = less crime.

 

[.45 Dave]

I would add that it is not illegal on a federal level either. Recently Colorado allowed carry on their campuses. Problem is, universities are run usually be liberals, and thus, you have the liberal mandates against guns in place. Still, I suspect there are some who do carry even of they risk expulsion if any one ever finds out.
I remember in my college days during a class a Psychology professor asked our class how many had guns either to carry with them or in their rooms or apartments. Out of the 75 or so in the class, at least 20 raised their hands. Please note: This was in the mid 80's and he didn't specifically ask if they had them with them. He also was a more conservative teacher and no repercussions come of it as a result. He was merely trying to make a point concerning some teaching on the psychological factors of self-defense. It was at IU Bloomington by the way.
Things have changed considerably since then and I suspect there are a lot more on campus with guns today.
Two years ago I took a two course class in Photoshop for my work at IUPUI in Indy. I went armed and no one noticed.
I am not advocating you arm yourself, that is for you to decide it's worth the risk. I'm just passing on my opinion. But it is certainly NOT illegal.

Oh, and interestingly enough, I noticed that when he asked that question, at least half who raised their hands were women!

 

[kludge]

I've been out of college for about 16 years now. I was prompted to get a gun and my LTCH when I was 21 after a road rage incident. My vehicle was physically attacked by a "classmate" of my teenage sister after I picked her up from a track meet... three miles from the high school... he followed me all the way to the police station the next town over, that was when he left. There was no one in the police station that time of evening. But there was no way that I was going to get out of my car to have "words" with a minor... that would not have gone very well... as we can see from the national news right now.

About a year earlier my girlfriend had been raped as she left work walking to her car. The slime bag slammed her head against the building, and she was nearly unconscious the whole time.

Another college girlfriend of mine was "party raped".

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I carried a handgun to IUPUI my last three years.

I remember thinking that I was silly/paranoid to think that a guy could go down hallways and into classrooms and randomly shoot people.

Now I don't care if anyone thinks I'm paranoid...

It happens to someone every day.

 

[dasprung]

You're absolutely right it does happen to someone every day. It seems that despite having a lifetime concealed carry permit I find that I can't carry a gun almost ANYWHERE. I can't carry at school (because of backwards reasoning policies) and I can't carry at work (because of fear of a lawsuit if there ever is an incident). It seems that the only time I can carry is when I'm not doing either or and that is hardly ever. Is getting fired because I carried at work and had an incident resulting in a lawsuit worth it? Is carrying at school and getting caught worth being expelled? More importantly why are we even having this conversation? What makes an establishment (especially one associated with the state) have the right to deny me my 2nd amendment rights? This isn't an uncommon occurence and in many ways it represents a new form of gun control.

 

[kludge]

What makes an establishment (especially one associated with the state) have the right to deny me my 2nd amendment rights?

QFT.

 

[gvsugod]

I was actually a big advocate for this in College. Got alot of people really mad at me when I told the school newspaper that gun free zones kill people.

He he. It was awesome to watch the mindless little liberal masses squirm.

 

[the1kidd03]

Personally, I am all for individual property owner rights, BUT there should be a law in place that REQUIRES facilities which are "open to the public" (ie do not have access control systems) to provide ARMED security personnel on site during hours of operation. If neither of those things are provided, then they should NOT be allowed to restrict citizens' rights and ability to protect themselves by banning lawful carry. Otherwise, it's like saying our property rights are more important than public safety. How retarded is that? What school are you attending there, dasprung?

 

[dasprung]

I go to IUPUI and this is my last semester, but it just sours me. Its a tricky thing: whats more important a private entity's property rights or my right to defend myself? Never mind a state run institution (that land is in the public trust). Its something that would probably fight all the way up to the highest court in the state if not the country if you were dogged enough but I'm not :-(.

 

[the1kidd03]

I would too and I do whatever I can to make sure people understand their rights and fight to keep them. I'm actually organizing a pro-2A forum at IUPUI if I can get all involved parties schedules coordinated.

 

[dasprung]

I'll sign it! What do I gotta do?

 

[dasprung]

IUPUI isn't a typical campus either. Most of the students are older, more mature, and work and commute in the city. I can't imagine the form meeting much opposition with the students here.

 

[the1kidd03]

Well, I tried contacting SCCC to start an IUPUI chapter, but he seemed uninterested in support because he never replied to any of my emails. Then I realized that simply complaining about rights we're restricted from and holding marches/protests aren't going to help absolve the issues. I decided to become more proactive in eliminating the oppositions ammunition/supporters by helping to educate people who are less knowledgable about self-defense, guns, and their rights. It's not so much about the student's support you must obtain to get such a policy change, it's the administrator's opinions you need to change (largely far left wing.) I couldn't even get a very pro-Constitution/2A professor to agree to be the sponsor of a pro-2A student club because of the grief he would receive from his superiors and that's simply WRONG and oppressive.

 

[drillsgt]

Well, I tried contacting SCCC to start an IUPUI chapter, but he seemed uninterested in support because he never replied to any of my emails. Then I realized that simply complaining about rights we're restricted from and holding marches/protests aren't going to help absolve the issues. I decided to become more proactive in eliminating the oppositions ammunition/supporters by helping to educate people who are less knowledgable about self-defense, guns, and their rights. It's not so much about the student's support you must obtain to get such a policy change, it's the administrator's opinions you need to change (largely far left wing.) I couldn't even get a very pro-Constitution/2A professor to agree to be the sponsor of a pro-2A student club because of the grief he would receive from his superiors and that's simply WRONG and oppressive.

He must not be tenured yet I thought there was SCCA activity at IUPUI??

 

[dasprung]

Once again this whole argument doesn't make any sense. Do any administrators watch the 6'oclock news? If no one knows I carry than who does it hurt? Isn't that the purpose of concealed carry anyways?

 

[dasprung]

I just don't want to get expelled for having a concealed firearm even though it is perfectly legal in the state of Indiana.

 

[SaintsNSinners]

I'd be happy to speak at a forum on IUPUI, I am an IUPUI employee by proxy.. I work at University Place Hotel in security. So i get to deal with drunks, homeless, domestic violence, child abuse, rape, vandalism; all the while "supposedly" unarmed.

 

[handgun]

This is my biggest concern in life. But my biggest fear is some student, previous student, or some random stranger will walk into the class room and start shooting up the professor and classmates. I feel have the right to carry and I do. I do worry about being expelled, but i much rather be expelled than be carried and buried.

I carry and no one notices. NOT A SOUL. I plan to keep it that way. Besides they let anyone into IVY TECH. The guards do not carry weapons, its a joke. Don't tell me that a rent a cop making 10-15 an hour is going to take a bullet for me. HELL NO. I bet they will all be hiding in a utility closet. I will say I will only be worried about me and not so much the other students. (selfish of me I know) I will not try to be a hero if a situation arose. But, I am also not going to take a bullet and not shoot back.

Go to any public college campus during the day.. walk around go in buildings.. No one will give you a second look.. IUPUI, IU, PURDUE, BALL STATE, IVY TECH, U of I, Hell go sit in one of the large lecture halls. I am sure the prof and other students wouldn't even think twice or even notice your not a student there..

There was a bill recently but it died before it could be voted on.. To trump school policy. I was optimistic. With all these high school and college shootings becoming more common.

i really wish I could get a petition going, with all of INGO's members to sign it. I am sure the bill would at least get a vote.. with 20k plus signatures.

 

[wolfts01]

This is my biggest concern in life. But my biggest fear is some student, previous student, or some random stranger will walk into the class room and start shooting up the professor and classmates. I feel have the right to carry and I do. I do worry about being expelled, but i much rather be expelled than be carried and buried.

I carry and no one notices. NOT A SOUL. I plan to keep it that way. Besides they let anyone into IVY TECH. The guards do not carry weapons, its a joke. Don't tell me that a rent a cop making 10-15 an hour is going to take a bullet for me. HELL NO. I bet they will all be hiding in a utility closet. I will say I will only be worried about me and not so much the other students. (selfish of me I know) I will not try to be a hero if a situation arose. But, I am also not going to take a bullet and not shoot back.

Go to any public college campus during the day.. walk around go in buildings.. No one will give you a second look.. IUPUI, IU, PURDUE, BALL STATE, IVY TECH, U of I, Hell go sit in one of the large lecture halls. I am sure the prof and other students wouldn't even think twice or even notice your not a student there..

There was a bill recently but it died before it could be voted on.. To trump school policy. I was optimistic. With all these high school and college shootings becoming more common.

i really wish I could get a petition going, with all of INGO's members to sign it. I am sure the bill would at least get a vote.. with 20k plus signatures.

I'd sign it. You're right about walking anywhere on campus. I could walk into pretty much any building on IPFW without suspicion, and I might see a cop once a month (taking a full load of classes) if I'm lucky.

They have no (inherent) right to deny public rights in a public space, regardless of if they 'own' it or not. Technically WE own it since it is paid for with primarily tax dollars. Until they have the TSA screen everyone who comes on to the campus they should not have a say.

If I were to carry on campus, and I'm not saying I have, it would be on a day when I have a 'feeling' that maybe I should carry today. I would do whatever I could to get people out and/or stop the threat if I'm armed or not, though.

 

[jbrooks19]

I would have hunted down the guy that raped her and lets just say it would not have been pretty.. If anyone ever even so much as threatened my wife i would beat them within a inch of their life, so much that they wouldnt be able to identify me. I may sound nuts but my wife, my mom, and my sister are women in my life that NO ONE messes with.. I completly agree that we should be able to carry in college, i currently attend Ivytech and i see people all the time with Knives and no one cares. Most the professors are ex-factory guys and are very open minded about this type of thing. I have often thought about carry my little AMT backup in my laptop bag, i mean no one would even notice it, but i try to be good I just turned 22 and still have a long life ahead of me, i dont need to get kicked out of college, my wife would kill me`

I've been out of college for about 16 years now. I was prompted to get a gun and my LTCH when I was 21 after a road rage incident. My vehicle was physically attacked by a "classmate" of my teenage sister after I picked her up from a track meet... three miles from the high school... he followed me all the way to the police station the next town over, that was when he left. There was no one in the police station that time of evening. But there was no way that I was going to get out of my car to have "words" with a minor... that would not have gone very well... as we can see from the national news right now.

About a year earlier my girlfriend had been raped as she left work walking to her car. The slime bag slammed her head against the building, and she was nearly unconscious the whole time.

Another college girlfriend of mine was "party raped".

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I carried a handgun to IUPUI my last three years.

I remember thinking that I was silly/paranoid to think that a guy could go down hallways and into classrooms and randomly shoot people.

Now I don't care if anyone thinks I'm paranoid...

It happens to someone every day.