Condition (X) with a Glock?

[Blackdog765]

Some time ago I was reading on this forum and on Glock Talk about the various conditions of carry. At that point there seemed to be a discrepancy as to what people considered a safe but ready carry method for the Glock.

I'm not sure how applicable the Jeff Cooper description is to the Glock - but included below is an excerpt from Wikipedia on his terminology.

In what condition do you carry your Glock? AND
Do you carry it differently based on your carry situation?
(e.g. In a holster versus in a pocket with a soft holster)

From Wikipedia:
Cooper favored the Colt M1911 and its variants. There are several conditions of readiness in which such a weapon can be carried. Cooper promulgated most of the following terms:

Condition Four: Chamber empty, no magazine, hammer down.
Condition Three: Chamber empty, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition Two: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition One: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on.
Condition Zero: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off.

Some of these configurations are safer than others (for instance, a single action pistol without a firing pin safety such as a transfer bar system should never be carried in Condition 2), while others are quicker to fire the gun (Condition 1). In the interest of consistent training, most agencies that issue the 1911 specify the condition in which it is to be carried as a matter of local doctrine.

This firearm condition system can also be used to refer to other firearm actions, particularly when illustrating the differences between carry modes considered to be safe for various actions. For example, DA/SA is designed to be carried in Condition 2, which is not safe for 1911s without firing pin safeties.

 

[kingnereli]

This may not be what you are looking for but all striker fired or single action pistols should have a safety present. It's not worth compromising safety to gain a training shortcut.

However, the vast majority of glock owners will tell you they carry with one in the chamber. You don't have all those conditions possible with a glock. It's either one in the pipe or not.

 

[K_W]

This goes for any striker fired pistol, not just Glocks, although some have additional safeties.

 

[chezuki]

Perfection = striker fired with no external safeties, carry in a quality holster with one in the pipe and follow the 4 rules. If you need a switch to feel safe, leave the gun at home and carry a stick or utilize Condition Butterscotch.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pU2IOTEZlU&sns=em[/ame]

 

[kawtech87]

When I carry my Glock I consider it Condition 1.

Or Butterscotch. Chezuki beat me to posting the vid.

 

[cedartop]

Perfection = striker fired with no external safeties, carry in a quality holster with one in the pipe and follow the 4 rules. If you need a switch to feel safe, leave the gun at home and carry a stick or utilize Condition Butterscotch.

 

[kingnereli]

Perfection = striker fired with no external safeties, carry in a quality holster with one in the pipe and follow the 4 rules. If you need a switch to feel safe, leave the gun at home and carry a stick or utilize Condition Butterscotch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pU2IOTEZlU&sns=em

I really enjoy encountering people who are completely incapable of the slightest mental error even for a moment. You are a rare breed. How does it feel? Most people I come across are quite fallible. We haven't risen above our susceptibility to the proverbial brain fart. For us it's possible to become lethargic from years of carrying without a problem. If we could only realize that there are those in this world who have brains, behaviors, quips and uselessly sarcastic videos without a hint of human error we could be as you are.

 

[indybuell]

I train with my pistol. I keep it in condition zero. I use a high quality IWB holster. I'd say my finger is my safety. But who knows. As I get older, I may change it up, but for now, that's the way it is.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

kingnereli, I see little difference between the skill set involved in getting a fully-loaded and ready pistol into a quality holster when it is a Glock or when it is a 1911. Neither is there any particular advantage, in my eyes, between drawing, presenting, and preparing to fire either style weapon. That it takes more manipulation of various parts to get a 1911 into firing condition than is required for a Glock is a training issue and has nothing much, as far as I'm concerned, with the issue of placing the finger on the trigger ONLY when you intend to fire the pistol - which is the same for any pistol.

 

[Double T]

Always chambered and in a holster. If it's my 1911 the safety is on. If it's my glock then I have the trigger "safety" and the firing pin block/plunger.

It takes some getting used to, but if you safety check with every cleaning, it will not go off on it's own in it's holster.

 

[Ljungman]

This debate seems elementary. Train with what you carry. If you carry a striker fired non-safetied pistol learn the proper methods to holster/maintain proper safe handling. I think the afforementioned methods are from the stand point that a 1911 has the ability to be in those positions. While a glock or other more modern striker cannot. The fact i carry a 1911 with one in chamber, hammer back, and thumb safety activated is comfy to me. Drop safety as you unholster/deploy pistol. A glock needs not to have any extra steps. As i understand glock and XD style weapons they are more of a tactical weapon and are needed in a hurry. Hurry means less things in the way impeding the fire arms ability to go bang. My old man carried a XD 40. I remarked i didnt like the fact that you carried it ready to fire with no safety....he rebutted with..then dont pull the trigger. Couldnt have learned any more wisdom than that. So it boils down to what are YOU comfortable with? you like no safety..use it. Like a speedo swimsuit..got the balls...rock it...otherwise wear your trunks. (safeties) I...wear my trunks.

 

[wizard_of_ahs]

Perfection = striker fired with no external safeties, carry in a quality holster with one in the pipe and follow the 4 rules. If you need a switch to feel safe, leave the gun at home and carry a stick or utilize Condition Butterscotch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pU2IOTEZlU&sns=em

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I never liked carrying a Glock while I was in uniform. When "they" know you are armed, there is always the chance of an ambush, and I don't care who you are or how tactical you are if you are surprised and outnumbered in a crowd, you have problems. If "they" get my gun away from me I'd like them to have to figure out how to operate it before they can shoot me with it. I would much rather carry a 1911 or H&K, it costs me no time to deactivate the safety on the draw stroke, and it might save my life. Now in plain clothes, I can CC, I can avoid crowds, and am not as concerned with an ambush, I'm completely comfortable with a Glock or revolver.

If no external safety is so great, why do rifles and shotguns have one? Are you a wimp if you carry an M4 and use the safety?

External safety or not, both have their advantages. Odd how divisive some people want to be over something as silly as if you want one or not.

 

[cosermann]

... If no external safety is so great, why do rifles and shotguns have one? Are you a wimp if you carry an M4 and use the safety? ...

Oh, let's see. . . rifles/shotguns are completely different firing mechanism designs for one thing. Secondly, rifles/shotguns are typically carried with an exposed trigger while a handgun is properly carried with a covered trigger. There are other reasons.

Come on people. Use the search engine. It's not as if the whole so-called external "safety" ever vs. magazine disconnect vs. none of the above as never been discussed ad nauseum on INGO before.

FWIW, I take the OP to be asking how Glocks are typically carried vis-a-vi the classic condition model. Well, the condition model doesn't map well to many modern pistols that don't have hammers or external safety levers. So, I'll say they're typically carried in condition 1.5.

 

[downzero]

Oh, let's see. . . rifles/shotguns are completely different firing mechanism designs for one thing.

This isn't really true. Most rifles and shotguns have essentially a single action firing mechanism without an exposed hammer. The safety is necessary, just like on a single action pistol, to block any movement of the sear, because the hammer is just one sear trip away from sending the chambered round down the barrel.

The exposed/unexposed trigger is the reason why rifle safeties have to be designed to not move to the "off" position if the rifle is dropped or smacked against an object. That's why it generally takes more pressure and there are more positive detents holding a rifle or shotgun in the "safe" position.

 

[Solitaire]

I've carried Glocks pretty much since they came into popularity, and I've never had a negligent discharge. I think it has more to do with mindset than any external safety mechanisms. We are all fallible as humans, sure. But that doesn't mean that an accident/negligence is inevitable if you carry a pistol without an external safety. If someone can't muster the caution necessary to safely handle ANY firearm, I would suggest that it would be best to avoid them to avert a potential tragedy.

Inanimate objects (assuming they are in good working order) are not safe or unsafe. People are.

 

[Solitaire]

This isn't really true. Most rifles and shotguns have essentially a single action firing mechanism without an exposed hammer. The safety is necessary, just like on a single action pistol, to block any movement of the sear, because the hammer is just one sear trip away from sending the chambered round down the barrel.

The exposed/unexposed trigger is the reason why rifle safeties have to be designed to not move to the "off" position if the rifle is dropped or smacked against an object. That's why it generally takes more pressure and there are more positive detents holding a rifle or shotgun in the "safe" position.

I agree with this post. I will never store my Remington 870 shotgun with a round in the chamber, because I know that it is essentially a cocked single action, and the hammer WILL fall if the shotgun is jarred hard enough. The safety does not block the hammer, it is only a trigger block.

 

[Blackdog765]

Wow.

Let me re-state another way... Seemed that INGO trended toward claiming Condition Zero and Glock Talk trended toward Conditon One for a Glock. And I was trying to ask for clarity as to why one would claim one condition over the other specifically with a Glock (or striker fired pistol). Does the Glock trigger safety count as a safety in your mind? And there isn't a way for a Glock to have one in the pipe without being cocked (as in cocked and locked) in my mind.

Whatever.

I guess it's Butterscotch for me.

 

[Solitaire]

Why all the concern about "condition" anyway? As long as the piece is safely carried in the manner in which it was designed, some arbitrary definition of condition matters not.

Glocks are safe with one in the pipe. There are 3 safeties keeping the striker from contacting the primer, all are automatically disengaged with a trigger pull. The striker is not fully cocked until the trigger is pulled, so the action is more of a hybrid of a single action and a double action design, but not the exact same as either. The conditions used to describe the state of a 1911 are irrelevant when applied to modern striker fired pistol, IMO.

 

[ZX-14R]

Perfection = striker fired with no external safeties, carry in a quality holster with one in the pipe and follow the 4 rules. If you need a switch to feel safe, leave the gun at home and carry a stick or utilize Condition Butterscotch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pU2IOTEZlU&sns=em

This! So much this! Carrying without one in the chamber is dangerous in my opinion.