Crown Point, IN gunman thwarted at chruch

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  • jedi

    Da PinkFather
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    SOURCE: Officials: C.P. gunman thwarted by S'ville church group / nwi.com

    Mix feelings on how the story is written. The guy was most likely going into the church with a "bad intent" and on doing something to his former girl. However just walking into a church OC **IS** not bad as the paper is making it out to be. I do give credit to the church members that even after seeing the gun in his waistband still tried to stop the guy.

    This story does however help me with this post.
    https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...nse/41855-talking_guns_to_family_friends.html

    This incident occurred at a church while a church meeting (read: not a service) was going on by someone who had no involvement with the meeting. In essence trouble/madmen with gun can be anywhere at anytime even if you are not looking for the trouble and/or in the wrong place. Thus more 'ammo' to carry with you where ever you go.

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    By Susan Erler
    susan.erler@nwi.com, (219) 933-4183 | Friday, July 03, 2009 | (2 comment(s))

    A Crown Point man described as being in "terminator mode" carried a handgun into a Schererville church Wednesday looking for his former girlfriend, according to law enforcement officials.

    The Lake County prosecutor's office Thursday charged Thomas Clark, 41, with four counts of stalking and one count of resisting law enforcement in connection with the incident.

    Schererville police arrested Clark about 10 a.m. Wednesday after he allegedly entered the Emmanuel Presbyterian Church, 140 U.S. 30, looking for the woman who was at the church for a meeting, according to documents filed with the prosecutor's office.

    Police responding to a 911 call from the church pursued Clark as he drove westbound on U.S. 30 away from the church but Clark didn't stop until he ran into heavy traffic at the intersection of U.S. 30 and Joliet Road and the police squad car blocked his passage.

    Officers discovered Clark was wanted on a June warrant for invasion of privacy.

    Police recovered a semi-automatic handgun, 152 rounds of ammunition, brass knuckles and a small knife from inside Clark's vehicle, according to the charging documents.

    The woman told police she'd been in the church restroom when Clark arrived, and other people in the church yelled for her to stay there.

    Witnesses told police they saw Clark enter the church carrying a gun in his waistband.

    Clark brushed past them when they attempted to block him from entering the church and getting near the restroom, and he appeared to be in a "terminator mode," the witnesses said.

    Clark left when he realized the witnesses were phoning police, they said.

    A court order issued in January 2008 in Lake County was intended to protect the woman from Clark after numerous threats against her and her family since the breakup of their relationship, according to charging documents.
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    Slim7

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    I don't know if this it the point you are getting at, but I would carry to church. I usually leave it in the vehicle when I go to church and I guess I figure I would try to slip out to get it. Probably bad plan. When I go to meetings I continue to carry like I do the rest of the day. Seems kind of weird to carry into worship service.
     

    jedi

    Da PinkFather
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    I don't know if this it the point you are getting at, but I would carry to church. I usually leave it in the vehicle when I go to church and I guess I figure I would try to slip out to get it. Probably bad plan. When I go to meetings I continue to carry like I do the rest of the day. Seems kind of weird to carry into worship service.

    Depending on the chruch I go to I carry or don't carry. The regular church I go to has a school 2 buildings from it (their school). In between the chruch and school is the pastor's house. All of it is on one big block. So I dont' care there. I don't like doing this and am trying to find another church with NO SCHOOL. The church my mom goes to (a bitfar for me) is like that.

    Not that either church has bad people but you never know when bad is going to come knocking on you door.
     

    Joe Williams

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    I actually don't have an issue with their description. It was just one more item in a long list of them that said the hero was there to cause trouble. If I'm reading the article correctly, he had a restraining order against him... which means he wasn't legally allowed to have that gun, IIRC.

    Good thing no one got hurt, sounds like the lady is lucky to have some real stand up folks watching her back in that church.
     

    lawrra

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    I have been CC'ing to church recently even when I play on the worship band. You never know what could happen with the current state of the nation. It's difficult to upset someone in a worship service if you're CC'ing because they don't know :)
     

    hotfarmboy1

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    I CC into my church all the time. Some know me well enough that they know I do. But its normally pretty hard to notice. Its doubtful that anything would happen at our little country church. But you never know with how this country is going.
     

    Slim7

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    Okay, two questions. In general, what gun do you CC to church. I could see an LCP or something of that type in the worship service, but a larger weapon I couldn't conceal well enough to not draw attention. (Maybe I just need to work on my concealment). I'd still feel a little funny about cc in worship so would want to conceal well.
    Also, if I carry to church, why not a daycare/preschool?
     

    Spot Me 2

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    Okay, two questions. In general, what gun do you CC to church. I could see an LCP or something of that type in the worship service, but a larger weapon I couldn't conceal well enough to not draw attention. (Maybe I just need to work on my concealment). I'd still feel a little funny about cc in worship so would want to conceal well.
    Also, if I carry to church, why not a daycare/preschool?

    I CC my XD 9mm sub com. It is against the law to carry on school grounds which is why most will not carry if their church has a school. That being said, I believe in the old saying. "I would rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6". I don't need anyone to tell me that I have a God given right to protect myself and my family!
     

    INGunGuy

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    Okay, two questions. In general, what gun do you CC to church. I could see an LCP or something of that type in the worship service, but a larger weapon I couldn't conceal well enough to not draw attention. (Maybe I just need to work on my concealment). I'd still feel a little funny about cc in worship so would want to conceal well.
    Also, if I carry to church, why not a daycare/preschool?



    IC 35-47-9
    Chapter 9. Possession of Firearms on School Property and School Buses
    IC 35-47-9-1
    Exemptions from chapter
    Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
    (1) A:
    (A) federal;
    (B) state; or
    (C) local;
    law enforcement officer.
    (2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
    (A) a school; or
    (B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
    to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
    (3) A person who:
    (A) may legally possess a firearm; and
    (B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
    As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

    IC 35-47-9-2
    Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
    Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
    (1) in or on school property;
    (2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
    (3) on a school bus;
    commits a Class D felony.
    As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

    And that my friend is why you cant. You cant even carry into church if they have a daycare or school facility that is part of the church.

    INGunGuy
     

    Buckaroo

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    Depending on the day I carry a M&P compact under an untucked shirt, carry tucked or wear a vest. I can also pocket carry of course.

    Buckaroo
     

    lawrra

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    Okay, two questions. In general, what gun do you CC to church. I could see an LCP or something of that type in the worship service, but a larger weapon I couldn't conceal well enough to not draw attention. (Maybe I just need to work on my concealment). I'd still feel a little funny about cc in worship so would want to conceal well.
    Also, if I carry to church, why not a daycare/preschool?
    I carry a XDm 40 without issues. The daycare/preschool issue has been covered. Carry what you're comfortable with
     

    spanky dog

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    New to this site and new to having a permit to carry. Question. With a permit, does the gun have to be on your person or can you carry it in some type of "bag" or whatever that is not actually connected to your belt, ankle holster etc?

    As far as a church setting, there are various sizes of what look like they could be bible covers that one could put a large frame gun in.
     

    lawrra

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    New to this site and new to having a permit to carry. Question. With a permit, does the gun have to be on your person or can you carry it in some type of "bag" or whatever that is not actually connected to your belt, ankle holster etc?

    As far as a church setting, there are various sizes of what look like they could be bible covers that one could put a large frame gun in.
    You can carry however you want. Your weapon doesn't have to be on your person, but make sure your permit is!
     

    antsi

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    However just walking into a church OC **IS** not bad as the paper is making it out to be.

    Ex boyfriend going armed in to a church, looking for the ex girlfriend, when there is an order of protection out against him.

    I consider that to be a pretty serious threat.

    Upstanding member of the church, coming to church OC on Sunday morning? I don't bat an eye.
     

    agentl074

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    Oct 5, 2008
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    IC 35-47-9
    Chapter 9. Possession of Firearms on School Property and School Buses
    IC 35-47-9-1
    Exemptions from chapter
    Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
    (1) A:
    (A) federal;
    (B) state; or
    (C) local;
    law enforcement officer.
    (2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
    (A) a school; or
    (B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
    to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
    (3) A person who:
    (A) may legally possess a firearm; and
    (B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
    As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

    IC 35-47-9-2
    Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
    Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
    (1) in or on school property;
    (2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
    (3) on a school bus;
    commits a Class D felony.
    As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

    "School bus" defined
    Sec. 24.3. "School bus" means any motor vehicle designed and constructed for the accommodation of more than ten (10) passengers, which is used for the transportation of Indiana school children.
    As added by P.L.296-1987, SEC.3.
    IC 35-41-1-24.7

    "School property" defined
    Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
    (1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
    (A) a school corporation;
    (B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
    (C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
    (D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
    (i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
    (ii) A special education preschool program.
    (iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
    (2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).
    As added by P.L.296-1987, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.34-1991, SEC.27; P.L.9-1991, SEC.95; P.L.2-1992, SEC.880; P.L.81-1992, SEC.38; P.L.1-1993, SEC.240; P.L.160-1994, SEC.1; P.L.1-2005, SEC.227; P.L.145-2006, SEC.370.

    And that my friend is why you cant. You cant even carry into church if they have a daycare or school facility that is part of the church.

    INGunGuy

    Fixed it for ya :)
     

    Paco Bedejo

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    I carry XDm 40 in an MTAC holster...shirt tucked in & everything. My nephew didn't believe I was carrying until I had him touch the grip thru my shirt...and we'd been wrestling around for awhile before that.
     
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