Did you vote yesterday...

[1DOWN4UP]

Someone is fishing,and everyone is taking the bait.

 

[ZenMaster]

You are more optimistic about human nature than I am. I used to be a follower of Rand. Then I realized that she believed people are inherently good.

Value is subjective, sir. Good or bad, doesnt matter. We are living creatures who have the same instincts and drive as any other living being: to stay alive and procreate. There will be plenty of strife and conflict no matter who is in charge. There is a quote attributed to the original Buddha: struggle is inevitable, suffering is optional. I think it fits here.

I believe in humans CAPABILITY. I'm saying nothing of their intentions. If they intend to do harm, they will find a way. If they intend to promote peace and harmony, they can find a way for that too.

Here's an interesting "experiment"...
Lets pretend the government is going to shut down forever, starting tomorrow. No more people in charge, no police, the whole bit...
Who is the first person you're going to rape? Murder? Steal from?

Ya, me neither. I wager the same goes for 99% of the people. Those 1%ers are going to kill and destroy no matter what the rules are.

Its the same argument gun people use against gun laws...

 

[eldirector]

I didn't vote this last election. Nothing on the ballet.

Previously, though, I did manage to help keep my tax burden level. THAT certainly improved my life. That same year I helped increase ALL OF OUR ability to carry a handgun, by supporting the good folks that believe in our 2A, and making my opinions known.

Personally, I believe that if TOO many people adopt the "I don't care. Doesn't effect me." we end up with another Detroit, Chicago, New York, etc... Because, I guarantee that SOMEONE cares enough to take whatever power they can. If it doesn't effect you now, it is only because enough other folks are standing up in your place.

 

[ZenMaster]

And, not voting won't cause the eventual election winners to stop telling you what to do. Laws apply to you whether or not you participate in the process. You're free to disobey those laws all you want, and at the end of the day, there's a guy with a gun telling you that you have to comply. The logical conclusion of your non-participation is probably you losing more freedom.

I recognize this and agree. Its the guy with the gun telling us to comply...thats why I'm not playing this game. I do not believe that voting can reverse the situation or change the rules of the game, so I'm just not gonna play.

 

[jamil]

I recognize this and agree. Its the guy with the gun telling us to comply...thats why I'm not playing this game. I do not believe that voting can reverse the situation or change the rules of the game, so I'm just not gonna play.

Fine. But quit calling the people who disagree with you "suckers". You're not the only one that gets to have an opinion about things.

 

[ZenMaster]

I voted...and being called a "sucker" for it is fine. Got called a lot worse than that after I got back from 'Nam. I'm really glad my property taxes are not going up this time...my vote made a difference. To each their own.

Property taxes. Exactly. You own your land, but if you dont pay a fee every year they'll kill you.

I suppose sucker is the wrong word here, because you dont exactly have a choice. But being proud of playing such a game is something I would never boast about.

 

[ZenMaster]

Fine. But quit calling the people who disagree with you "suckers". You're not the only one that gets to have an opinion about things.

Its not for disagreeing, but fair enough. Buying in to the idea that your voice matters (to them) is naive. Thats a better word.

Complaining, though, is still for babies.

 

[halfmileharry]

I can only view this as a "Race to 50 Posts" it's the only logical reasoning that I can come up with.

 

[ZenMaster]

I can only view this as a "Race to 50 Posts" it's the only logical reasoning that I can come up with.

2/10

But I'm sure you're just warming up.

 

[DRob]

I voted in Marion County Precinct 32. There were three names on the ballot. The two candidates for Mayor and an unopposed, incumbent City Council candidate about whom I know too much to cast a ballot for. Didn't take me long to vote!

We have a very important election looming just over the horizon and I sincerely hope the my-unelectable-single-issue-guy-isn't-on-the-ballot-so-I'm-not-going-to-vote brigade gets off their @$$#$ and votes rather than helping Hillary (or whoever the Ds put up) by staying home.

 

[jamil]

I can only view this as a "Race to 50 Posts" it's the only logical reasoning that I can come up with.

2/10

But I'm sure you're just warming up.

It's a common occurrence. It happens often enough that we tend to assume it. I did. I almost asked you what caught your interest in the classifieds.

So if that's not the case, maybe you'll stick around. Then ATM can have a kindred soul with whom to gang up on us.

 

[HoughMade]

I can only view this as a "Race to 50 Posts" it's the only logical reasoning that I can come up with.

Quality​ posts.

 

[ZenMaster]

It's a common occurrence. It happens often enough that we tend to assume it. I did. I almost asked you what caught your interest in the classifieds.

So if that's not the case, maybe you'll stick around. Then ATM can have a kindred soul with whom to gang up on us.

My real purpose here is to learn about rifles. Along the way, though, I'll be more than happy to do a little mental sparring.

I disagree with a lot of conservative ideas, though, so we should be able to have some fun!

 

[halfmileharry]

Quality​ posts.

You said it. I wasn't about to.

 

[halfmileharry]

Someone is fishing,and everyone is taking the bait.

My SECOND thought was that it was a past member that'd been hammered hard.

 

[jamil]

My SECOND thought was that it was a past member that'd been hammered hard.

Eh, why care? I don't think ZenMaster's political opinions sound all that different from ATM's. We can handle a different view as long as it's expressed respectfully. Who knows, maybe the semiannual DST thread will get even more lively.

 

[HoughMade]

My SECOND thought was that it was a past member that'd been hammered hard.

Well that doesn't narrow it down that much.

 

[Mosineer]

Property taxes. Exactly. You own your land, but if you dont pay a fee every year they'll kill you.

I suppose sucker is the wrong word here, because you dont exactly have a choice. But being proud of playing such a game is something I would never boast about.

Sorry to disappoint you, but not playing your game, I can be proud of my beliefs and you yours. That's what I fought for....you can disagree with me and I can disagree with you. God Bless and I wish the best for you. I will go on with my life the way I wish with no further thought of you. I'll just travel on.

 

[Libertarian01]

A few interesting ideas have been brought up that should be addressed.

#1) There was a time without government. --- There has always been a government of some type! It wasn't advanced with a complete bureaucracy behind it, but it has always been there. To the beginning of man there were tribal chieftains. They were the government, a government of one (1). In almost every societal animal there is a leader, an alpha male and/or alpha female. These alone dictate where the pride/pack/group goes, but they alone decide. In many cases they also get to mate with the females. In early man there were tribal leaders and/or witch doctors, a "government." A force that directed the society to certain activities. That force may have had a limited reach and limited infrastructure, but to claim that tyranny isn't a form of government, which a chief is, is... silly.

Anarchy seldom exists, and if it does it is only for an extremely short time. Either a single person will have the drive to assume command, and will do so because others are weaker willed or lack the drive to lead. This becomes a tyranny. Or, perhaps, a small group of people within a larger group take command IF the prior government has been killed. This then becomes an oligarchy. In any case, government does exist and has existed from the time before mankind even walked the earth, it existed in social animals and we are merely an extension of that pattern.

#2) People do not "vote." --- When elections occur everyone votes, they just don't think about it that way. In modern America a decision is made. Either a person goes into a voting booth and exercises power to attempt to guide their leadership in a certain direction. This is, for lack of a better phrase, "direct" voting. OR they do not go into the booth and vote to let those that do chose the direction for them! This is what I call "indirect" voting. Not going into the booth is NOT voting, it is simply voting to allow the force wielded by others to be unopposed.

Government is a tool that is given, by the people who either create it or allow its continuation, the ability to use justified force to impose order on the society at large. In the olden days, when we had chieftains, that force was without the guidance of the people upon whom the force would be applied. Today, that force is directed by the people, to a greater and lesser degree depending upon which level of government we are discussing. If someone fails to go into the voting booth and exercise the force given them by law then they are simply abdicating that force to others to wield. In other words, they are voting to be lead by those stronger willed than they, and they attempt to justify this abdication with illogical arguments.

For the record, I do NOT mind this abdication, for it normally means that my force is greater and if they are too shortsighted to comprehend their abdication then I don't value the direction their force would take us and am thankful it is not being applied.

Regards,

Doug

 

[hopper68]

What difference could one vote make?

Election 2015: It's a tie - Dubois County Free Press