Displeased with Federal's response after ammo problems

[Erich]

I don’t usually gripe about customer service -in fact, my experience with firearms-related customer service - and reloading related customer service in particular - have been very good. But I had a bad experience with Federal just now, and thought I’d share it, because it was so unusual in relation to the service I’ve gotten on other ammunition issues.



So, yesterday I had brought a brand-new silver box of Federal Classic ammo to the range to try in my new-to-me pre-Model 30 Improved I-frame. The Federal Classic ammo was 98-gr RNL .32 S&W Long, part no. C32LB, lot number 3 19J155. Federal ammo is more expensive in this caliber than Eastern European stuff, but I figured the good thing about using big maker ammo from Federal would be that I’d be able to reload the empties. Based on decades of past experience, I figured I’d get quality brass after firing the low-pressure .32 S&W Long factory loads.



The ammo shot well enough (group at 10 yards), though was pretty tame (M 667.8/ES 78.95/SD 32.31).

But wait! Upon firing, I noticed that one round did a very odd spurt of stuff out of the bbl/cyl gap, and was surprised to find that I had to hammeron the ejector rod to get the rounds out of the cylinder. Out of five rounds, four split - and one had its primer pop out the back.

This was NOT the fault of the gun - I fired four other loadings on the same outing (two handloads - ironically in Federal cases, and two factory loadings by S&B and Aguila) with no problems whatsoever.



So, since this ammo wasn’t going to give me the reloadable cases that I’d been after, I figured I’d contact ATK; on advice of friend, I went to their site and filled out a contact form:

Four out of five cases split on a new silver box of Federal Classic .32 S&W Long ammo, part no. C32LB, lot number 3 19J155. One primer protruded. The cases had to be forcibly extracted by hammering the ejector rod. This was not a problem with the gun, as several other loadings performed flawlessly.

Here are some photographs:

i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/505Erich/Handguns/2013-03-10_11-34-34_709.jpg

i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/505Erich/Handguns/2013-03-10_11-34-51_820.jpg

I deliberately purchased what I thought to be quality Federal ammo because I wanted the spent cases for reloading. Please contact me about this.

I was really surprised when Federal wrote back a terse, “Go Away” email:

You bought old ammo, it has been sitting on the shelf. The brass split due to stress corrosion cracking. It was manufactured in 2003.

Thanks
Federal Ammunition

I was pretty amazed by this, and responded:

Are you kidding me, or are you just insulting me? I've been happily reloading much of the same brass since the '80s, and you're going to tell me that your new, never-fired brass from only ten years ago will split when fired in a low-pressure factory loading in the .32 S&W Long cartridge.

I’ve not heard back. I’m not pleased with Federal/ATK’s handling of the situation; I would have expected that Federal/ATK would stand behind its products or care more about its customers.

 

[Glock4life]

Wow that is very disturbing that they are taking that kind of approach on it. There is a huge liability on them if anything should malfunction. I don't even use reloads in my CC. I always took to approach that if I had to use my gun in self defense I would rather have the ability to get backing from Hornady or who ever. This makes me re-think my decision.

 

[jedi]

Have never had to interact with federal but it's a seller's market right now so would not be too suprised if they blow you off. After all there are craZies buy .22 bulk packs of 525 for $250 at retail right now!

 

[92ThoStro]

Ughhhh when I was given my revolver, I got a really old box of Remington 32 long to go with it. Half the ammo had green surface corrosion in the Styrofoam cartridge holder insert. I had to take a wire brush and bore cleaner, and scrub the side of the casings, especially near the LRN. The ammo now looks really clean, and it fires flawlessly, and none of them have ever cracked, and none of the primers have had any problems. I don't see how ammo from 2003 would be too old to fire LOL. I would for sure contact someone else with Federal and show them that e-mail you got.

I don't know how old the ammo I got is, but I know Rem doesn't use Styrofoam anymore, and the receipt for the gun was 1979 I believe, and it was hardly fired. I wouldn't doubt the ammo was from around that time.

 

[singlestacksig]

I don’t usually gripe about customer service -in fact, my experience with firearms-related customer service - and reloading related customer service in particular - have been very good. But I had a bad experience with Federal just now, and thought I’d share it, because it was so unusual in relation to the service I’ve gotten on other ammunition issues.



So, yesterday I had brought a brand-new silver box of Federal Classic ammo to the range to try in my new-to-me pre-Model 30 Improved I-frame. The Federal Classic ammo was 98-gr RNL .32 S&W Long, part no. C32LB, lot number 3 19J155. Federal ammo is more expensive in this caliber than Eastern European stuff, but I figured the good thing about using big maker ammo from Federal would be that I’d be able to reload the empties. Based on decades of past experience, I figured I’d get quality brass after firing the low-pressure .32 S&W Long factory loads.



The ammo shot well enough (group at 10 yards), though was pretty tame (M 667.8/ES 78.95/SD 32.31).

But wait! Upon firing, I noticed that one round did a very odd spurt of stuff out of the bbl/cyl gap, and was surprised to find that I had to hammeron the ejector rod to get the rounds out of the cylinder. Out of five rounds, four split - and one had its primer pop out the back.

This was NOT the fault of the gun - I fired four other loadings on the same outing (two handloads - ironically in Federal cases, and two factory loadings by S&B and Aguila) with no problems whatsoever.

So, since this ammo wasn’t going to give me the reloadable cases that I’d been after, I figured I’d contact ATK; on advice of friend, I went to their site and filled out a contact form:
I was really surprised when Federal wrote back a terse, “Go Away” email:





I was pretty amazed by this, and responded:





I’ve not heard back. I’m not pleased with Federal/ATK’s handling of the situation; I would have expected that Federal/ATK would stand behind its products or care more about its customers.

if they think that short of time effects their product, i would think they have a duty to recall it at a certain time limit..

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

After all there are craZies buy .22 bulk packs of 525 for $250 at retail right now!

If you would ever-so-kindly let me know what venue it is that I can sell a bulk box for $250, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.

 

[jedi]

If you would ever-so-kindly let me know what venue it is that I can sell a bulk box for $250, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.

Gander Mountain

SOURCE INFO:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...go_general_post_part_4_a-116.html#post3968109
and
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...go_general_post_part_4_a-116.html#post3968177

Said member went to their retail store and saw it with his own eyes.
Said member goes daily to Wal-Mart and other local stores looking for .22lr as he takes new shooters and youth to the appleseed matches and he is running very low on .22lr for this season of applessed.

 

[LarryC]

I don’t usually gripe about customer service -in fact, my experience with firearms-related customer service - and reloading related customer service in particular - have been very good. But I had a bad experience with Federal just now, and thought I’d share it, because it was so unusual in relation to the service I’ve gotten on other ammunition issues.



So, yesterday I had brought a brand-new silver box of Federal Classic ammo to the range to try in my new-to-me pre-Model 30 Improved I-frame. The Federal Classic ammo was 98-gr RNL .32 S&W Long, part no. C32LB, lot number 3 19J155. Federal ammo is more expensive in this caliber than Eastern European stuff, but I figured the good thing about using big maker ammo from Federal would be that I’d be able to reload the empties. Based on decades of past experience, I figured I’d get quality brass after firing the low-pressure .32 S&W Long factory loads.



The ammo shot well enough (group at 10 yards), though was pretty tame (M 667.8/ES 78.95/SD 32.31).

But wait! Upon firing, I noticed that one round did a very odd spurt of stuff out of the bbl/cyl gap, and was surprised to find that I had to hammeron the ejector rod to get the rounds out of the cylinder. Out of five rounds, four split - and one had its primer pop out the back.

This was NOT the fault of the gun - I fired four other loadings on the same outing (two handloads - ironically in Federal cases, and two factory loadings by S&B and Aguila) with no problems whatsoever.



So, since this ammo wasn’t going to give me the reloadable cases that I’d been after, I figured I’d contact ATK; on advice of friend, I went to their site and filled out a contact form:




I was really surprised when Federal wrote back a terse, “Go Away” email:





I was pretty amazed by this, and responded:





I’ve not heard back. I’m not pleased with Federal/ATK’s handling of the situation; I would have expected that Federal/ATK would stand behind its products or care more about its customers.

In my opinion this would warrant a phone call to their customer service. If the first person responded similar to their earlier reply, I would then ask to speak to their supervisor.

I have fired a LOT of old ammo - much over 50 years, and we reload all brass cases except rim fire. I have never EVER experienced cases splitting like this out of a functional firearm.

I have 45 acp cases we have reloaded for at least 15 years and are in the 7th to 10th reloading cycle with very few split cases. Many of our cases had been reloaded for 10 years or more and never have had a problem.

There are only a few things that could do this:

1) The firearm had a bad chamber. (obviously this would show up with all ammo)
2) The ammo was stored in a wet cellar for the entire period since it was made. -(there would be a great deal of corrosion apparent on the OUTSIDE of the case)
3) The powder used was improperly formulated and was corrosive (Still Federal's problem - I have read of a one case of this with Vitahora powder - don't know if it is true).
4) There was an excessive charge of powder causing High pressure (could be an extremely fast batch of powder - still Federal's problem - (and I would think they would want any remaining stock to be analyzed!)

 

[JTScribe]

That's insane. My grandfather gave me a small crate of WW2 surplus ammo when he gifted me his M1 Carbine and the vast majority (like 99.9% plus) worked perfectly. That stuff was going on 70 years old!

 

[cosermann]

If they're knowingly loading ammunition that they know develops "stress corrosion cracking" after such a short period of time, they're essentially manufacturing little time bombs.

If this was the case and many of their customers found out about it, I suspect many of those same customers would discontinue buying Federal products. I know I would.

I trust a fine company like Federal is NOT doing this, and hope it was just a flippant remark by whomever was replying to email that day.

Let us know how this resolves.

 

[Expat]

Did you ask them to point out the expiration date on the box for future reference?

 

[Bennettjh]

WOW I'm sorry to hear that happened. I've shot ammo well over 10 years old and didn't have a problem at all. I would definitely give them a call, at least to tell them they have a problem with cases. However, I'm glad the firearm isn't damaged and more importantly you or someone else didn't get injured.

 

[Erich]

That's pretty good, Expat.

There is no corrosion on the other rounds in the box, and there was none on these rounds. And the gun is in perfectly fine shape - shot a number of other types of rounds without problem.

A friend on another board who knows people has kindly offered to put me in touch with the bigwigs at ATK, but at this point I'm not so much interested in making myself whole on the one box of ammo as I am warning people about the sort of response they can expect from ATK should they have a problem. Honestly, I don't think I've ever encountered this sort of indifference in customer service in the reloading industry.

 

[hoosierdoc]

ATK also raising prices in April due to the cost of investment in their production facilities. Hrm.

 

[45fan]

I have encountered this same issue with .380 Federal ammo. I picked up a box of American eagle, and about 10 or so of the 50 cases split, with excessive soot on them. The recoil and noise wasnt any different, so I didnt notice the issue until I picked up the brass. Possibly there is an issue with federal's brass cases...

 

[Bennettjh]

I have encountered this same issue with .380 Federal ammo. I picked up a box of American eagle, and about 10 or so of the 50 cases split, with excessive soot on them. The recoil and noise wasnt any different, so I didnt notice the issue until I picked up the brass. Possibly there is an issue with federal's brass cases...

Funny you should mention that. I had a couple boxes of American Eagle 9mm and I didn't notice any split cases. However, it wasn't very accurate and extremely dirty. I would use Remington and shot placement was good but as soon as I went to AE I had several badly placed shots and noticed a lot of soot on muzzle.

 

[PGRChaplain]

Erich, as stated before, call Cust Svc and talk with a Supervisor. I've found dealing with employees never gets expected results. Federal should ask for the bad ammo that's left and replace/reimburse you for your cost/ammo. This is clearly a deffictive product.

 

[Erich]

That's probably good advice, but I'm kinda done hassling with it at this point.

 

[Sierra117]

That's probably good advice, but I'm kinda done hassling with it at this point.

I would keep a record of your communication with them regarding this issue.

 

[mike trible]

Displeased with Federal's response

I would be displeased with that kind of response also. I have always had good luck with Federal ammo, but I do not like Federal's brass for reloading purposes. I know you stated that you did not have any problems with other brands, but I think if that were my gun I would clean the chambers and then inspect them very closely. It was not at all unusual for owners of 32s&w long revolvers to fire 32 s&w shorts in them to save a few cents and 32 s&w shorts were easier to find at the corner store.(back in the day) If a previous owner fired a lot of shorts in that gun the front part of the chambers could have been eroded, causing the longs that you shoot to swell and stick in the chambers. I noticed in your pictures that the splits seem to be in the front part of the cases. 32 s&w long cases are .92" long and 32 s&w short cases are .61" long. Also the protruding primer in the one picture is a sign of a low pressure cartridge, not high pressure. Just my 2 cents worth, Good Luck with that.