Do you TRULY want a good AR-15 or do you want crap?

[KG1]

I would like to add that even though I may go with a cheaper stripped lower option like an Anderson from time to time I still put a bit of money into more reputable brands of LPK's and buffer assemblies. I usually purchase the LPKs without a trigger group. I'll go with an ALG ACT trigger for a general "meat and potato" build. I consider them to be a cost effective quality upgrade from the usual "mil-spec" triggers that doesn't break the bank and I would have more confidence in their quality when push comes to shove. Lately I have been using Sons of Liberty "Blaster Guts" LPKs. for a few assemblies.

Just because I might go with a more cost effective lower receiver option occasionally doesn't necessarily mean that I cheap out on all the parts to complete the assembly and I do have a few "go to" AR's that I have put more money into as far as lowers and triggers and such as well.

 

[TheARfan]

He did a nice write up for our Family/Youth shoot we have up here.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...-shoot-event-today-heres-what-you-missed.html
DANG IT.
Looks like the link it references goes to his youtube channel.
His page he used to have, with a write up (Blog) must be gone.
Anyway, he did a real nice write up about it.




And here is this years event.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...nnual-nwi-ingo-winamac-dnr-youth-day-aar.html

Wow, that is so awesome!

 

[actaeon277]

Wow, that is so awesome!

We have another one coming up. You're welcome to join us.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...day-volunteers-donors-needed-17-jun-17-a.html

 

[Ggreen]

I agree with this. The only issue I've ever ran across with Anderson was a total junk lpk. Trigger was the nastiest I've ever felt, the detents in the safety were improperly drilled so the safety actually wobbled, pivot and takedown pins that seemed to grind. I put a stoner nibx trigger and upgraded the lpk in everyway and was happy with the result. IMHO the lpk is more important than the lower. As long as the lower is to spec it will function, if the lpk is trash the whole build feels like trash. Wise money is good money and you don't need to spend thousands to have an acceptable, reliable, fun to shoot AR. Maybe 10 years ago but not today.

for the money...

 

[Cerberus]

In fairness, heres a noveske and below that later I'll post a pic of an aero once my wife digs it out for me lol. I don't have a stripped BCM or anything else but andersons or is post a pics of them too. I might have a rock river I'll check. The noveske looks like crap but it's also a spot you'll never see just like the andersons. So I won't fault them for metal chipping (or whatever you call it) on a grip screw hole. Now if they left extra metal there then that would be a no go.
View attachment 53975

In the picture that shows the rough looking tapped hole, that is not chipped out. That is just how a hole that is tapped on an angle to a surface looks. Those aren't actually chips, but the threads that are exposed partially.

 

[zsm]

I started putting together ARs when Obama was first elected. Finding a Colt was near impossible, and I could only afford one at pre-election prices. Instead, I used what parts I could find. I only wanted it for range use anyways, so I made compromises. It was a nightmare and I learned my lesson.

-DoubleStar lower had the buffer detent drilled in the wrong place, which the detent broke off and jammed itself into the barrel extension.
-Model 1 barrel nut threaded improperly and a jacked-up FCG in the lower parts kit
-Del-ton carbine barrel was insanely overgassed, replaced with another Del-ton barrel that was nearly as bad. One of the straight-pins for the FSB fell out.
-Rock River Arms buffer tube threads were toast after first hard drop.

These are just the things I have dealt with using parts of my own. I do not know where to start with problems I have dealt on others. The major culprits being overgassed barrels and broken bolts/extractors.

The infamous "Chart" on m4carbine was out slightly before I started building, and I only wish I had known it existed. Instead, I had to learn the hard way why it exists. These arguments have been going on for a long time. Now, there are hundreds of manufactures putting out parts of various quality, which convolutes the argument even further. It will never end no matter what; ultimately, I gave up.

 

[hog slayer]

So now, is this a decent time to consider building a PSA 30 cal ar platform for ~$600? How bad can they be? I cannot tell you that there is a really good reason for me to have one which is the reason why I couldn't justify great amounts of dough. It would be useful to remember how much 308 costs so a 50k round count run and gun Rourke isn't really likely, either.

 

[Ggreen]

So now, is this a decent time to consider building a PSA 30 cal ar platform for ~$600? How bad can they be? I cannot tell you that there is a really good reason for me to have one which is the reason why I couldn't justify great amounts of dough. It would be useful to remember how much 308 costs so a 50k round count run and gun Rourke isn't really likely, either.

Well, I think the problem will be the paper your shooting at being offended by not getting punched through by a higher end receiver.... You must take feelings into consideration it is 2017 after all. Target paper has really come up in the ranks and demands high quality brass delivery devices, you may get lucky and find some of that paper that doesn't care and will just take holes from any old receiver but you know the high end paper will likely outright refuse to be poked by anything less than a billet matched receiver with a nice hard black and chrome 18"

 

[CraigAPS]

Well, I think the problem will be the paper your shooting at being offended by not getting punched through by a higher end receiver.... You must take feelings into consideration it is 2017 after all. Target paper has really come up in the ranks and demands high quality brass delivery devices, you may get lucky and find some of that paper that doesn't care and will just take holes from any old receiver but you know the high end paper will likelyoutright refuse to be poked by anything less than a billet matched receiver with a nice hard black and chrome 18"

 

[zsm]

Well, I think the problem will be the paper your shooting at being offended by not getting punched through by a higher end receiver.... You must take feelings into consideration it is 2017 after all. Target paper has really come up in the ranks and demands high quality brass delivery devices, you may get lucky and find some of that paper that doesn't care and will just take holes from any old receiver but you know the high end paper will likely outright refuse to be poked by anything less than a billet matched receiver with a nice hard black and chrome 18"

This is the prime example of why these arguments never head in a positive direction. Why interject with this? There is no elitism here. Most people advocating newbies to buy BCM, Colt, and so on have already walked the walk and been burned. . . They just want people to avoid what they have experienced.

I have witnessed Palmetto State Armory since the beginning of their AR days. I remember when they sent out a few midlength uppers with carbine length gas tubes. It is understandable that mistakes happen, but the major issue was that they did not even bother to test fire their uppers. I would say this is beyond negligent, even for a start-up. Has Palmetto improved since then? I would say yes; however, where is all this "savings" coming from? These are tools that can potentially be dangerous to the person using it, too.

Colt, BCM, LMT and the like are not scamming you. That is what an AR costs. "How bad can they be?" From my experience, very bad. Trust your gut.

 

[Ggreen]

This is the prime example of why these arguments never head in a positive direction. Why interject with this? There is no elitism here. Most people advocating newbies to buy BCM, Colt, and so on have already walked the walk and been burned. . . They just want people to avoid what they have experienced.

I have witnessed Palmetto State Armory since the beginning of their AR days. I remember when they sent out a few midlength uppers with carbine length gas tubes. It is understandable that mistakes happen, but the major issue was that they did not even bother to test fire their uppers. I would say this is beyond negligent, even for a start-up. Has Palmetto improved since then? I would say yes; however, where is all this "savings" coming from? These are tools that can potentially be dangerous to the person using it, too.

Colt, BCM, LMT and the like are not scamming you. That is what an AR costs. "How bad can they be?" From my experience, very bad. Trust your gut.

This thread was doomed from the beginning. Opinion based bull is no different than the snap on vs craftsman debate on another forum I frequent. The satirical theatrics are purely for entertainment. I used an Anderson based blackout to kill my deer this year and it has run flawlessly. I recently came into abcm lower so the Anderson is finding a new home where it will run reliably for generations to come. Get off the high horse and enjoy the jokes.

 

[Cerberus]

This is the prime example of why these arguments never head in a positive direction. Why interject with this? There is no elitism here. Most people advocating newbies to buy BCM, Colt, and so on have already walked the walk and been burned. . . They just want people to avoid what they have experienced.

I have witnessed Palmetto State Armory since the beginning of their AR days. I remember when they sent out a few midlength uppers with carbine length gas tubes. It is understandable that mistakes happen, but the major issue was that they did not even bother to test fire their uppers. I would say this is beyond negligent, even for a start-up. Has Palmetto improved since then? I would say yes; however, where is all this "savings" coming from? These are tools that can potentially be dangerous to the person using it, too.

Colt, BCM, LMT and the like are not scamming you. That is what an AR costs. "How bad can they be?" From my experience, very bad. Trust your gut.

I have witnessed most of these upper tier makers since well before you even knew what an AR was. I can tell you right now from many years of personal experience that I could take a BCM lower and upper and fill it with junk and those "in the know" will never even realize it. I use quality guts in any old upper or lower so long as it's in spec. I have access to enough metrology equipment to make most peoples head spin, up to and including a CMM. I am going to have to call you out on a good deal of what you have written, as anyone that has had as much bad luck as you claim to have had with firearms should probably find a new hobby all together, like cross stitch maybe.
If you knew what Colt/FN actually asked for their M16s and M4s from the government you would probably realize that the extra few hundred they tack on for Joe Q. Public is a scam.

I've been around hundreds of ARs in usage. Add in my military service and that would go into the thousands. I've witnessed 3 mechanical failures in all that time. 1 military and 2 civilian. The civilian examples were 1 loose gas key, and 1 case of broken gas key bolts. The military failure was a loose hammer pin.

 

[rlfrye]

I have witnessed most of these upper tier makers since well before you even knew what an AR was. I can tell you right now from many years of personal experience that I could take a BCM lower and upper and fill it with junk and those "in the know" will never even realize it. I use quality guts in any old upper or lower so long as it's in spec. I have access to enough metrology equipment to make most peoples head spin, up to and including a CMM. I am going to have to call you out on a good deal of what you have written, as anyone that has had as much bad luck as you claim to have had with firearms should probably find a new hobby all together, like cross stitch maybe.
If you knew what Colt/FN actually asked for their M16s and M4s from the government you would probably realize that the extra few hundred they tack on for Joe Q. Public is a scam.

I've been around hundreds of ARs in usage. Add in my military service and that would go into the thousands. I've witnessed 3 mechanical failures in all that time. 1 military and 2 civilian. The civilian examples were 1 loose gas key, and 1 case of broken gas key bolts. The military failure was a loose hammer pin.

First of all, as a guy who could not serve, I would like to thank you and all the other INGO members who have served. It is because of people like yourselves that people like me can build their own ar pistol.

Now to add my fuel to this thread, I am guessing the gas key and hammer must have come from Palmetto or Anderson,cause they were obviously crap. And before anyone gets their undies in a knot, I think people should use the best quality parts they can afford, whether that is Anderson or Palmetto, or BCM,or whoever. I am not going to war with mine, and not defending my home with them, so if they break, I'll just fix em and move on.

 

[zsm]

I have witnessed most of these upper tier makers since well before you even knew what an AR was. I can tell you right now from many years of personal experience that I could take a BCM lower and upper and fill it with junk and those "in the know" will never even realize it. I use quality guts in any old upper or lower so long as it's in spec. I have access to enough metrology equipment to make most peoples head spin, up to and including a CMM. I am going to have to call you out on a good deal of what you have written, as anyone that has had as much bad luck as you claim to have had with firearms should probably find a new hobby all together, like cross stitch maybe.
If you knew what Colt/FN actually asked for their M16s and M4s from the government you would probably realize that the extra few hundred they tack on for Joe Q. Public is a scam.

I've been around hundreds of ARs in usage. Add in my military service and that would go into the thousands. I've witnessed 3 mechanical failures in all that time. 1 military and 2 civilian. The civilian examples were 1 loose gas key, and 1 case of broken gas key bolts. The military failure was a loose hammer pin.

Why would I lie? To brag about how much money I've wasted when I was new to ARs? How do you think I benefit out of this? An even better question. . .if I DID happen to own those parts, where do you think I bought the majority of them?

 

[churchmouse]

Getting a bit edgy in here.
We all have our own experiences.
Mine have steered me away from the PSA level AR's. I have built more than a few and experienced some issues. Add to this delayed shipping and very poor communication it is just a no brainer to not buy from them any more.

I have 2 rifles that are AR Stoner based with good internals and they are accurate and run just fine.

The rest are a mix of manf. and they run just fine.

 

[Expat]

 

[Bigtanker]

So let me get this straight. My Anderson lower and PSA upper is like having a Kimber 1911 instead of a Wilson Combat?

 

[JollyMon]

So let me get this straight. My Anderson lower and PSA upper is like having a Kimber 1911 instead of a Wilson Combat?

Yes

 

[DanVoils]

So let me get this straight. My Anderson lower and PSA upper is like having a Wilson Combat instead of a Glock 17?

FIFY

 

[Trigger Time]

I have witnessed most of these upper tier makers since well before you even knew what an AR was. I can tell you right now from many years of personal experience that I could take a BCM lower and upper and fill it with junk and those "in the know" will never even realize it. I use quality guts in any old upper or lower so long as it's in spec. I have access to enough metrology equipment to make most peoples head spin, up to and including a CMM. I am going to have to call you out on a good deal of what you have written, as anyone that has had as much bad luck as you claim to have had with firearms should probably find a new hobby all together, like cross stitch maybe.
If you knew what Colt/FN actually asked for their M16s and M4s from the government you would probably realize that the extra few hundred they tack on for Joe Q. Public is a scam.

I've been around hundreds of ARs in usage. Add in my military service and that would go into the thousands. I've witnessed 3 mechanical failures in all that time. 1 military and 2 civilian. The civilian examples were 1 loose gas key, and 1 case of broken gas key bolts. The military failure was a loose hammer pin.

i don't know if I was still a twinkle while you were in Saigon or in diapers when you were running guns during Iran contra, or watching CNN while you were fighting sand fleas in the first gulf war? But when I joined pre-911 till '06 and then contracted after that, I already saw more mechanical failures than you did. Then as a fat civilian gun owner I've seen more than that personaly and of others guns. So I just want to tell you to go buy a lottery ticket because you have some good luck!