Does an AR really need BUS?

[shootersix]

I have 3 ar's

1-plinking, fun, home defense(in case mr badguy is still coming after I empty the shotgun into him) and it has a red dot with bus cause I want to be able to fire quickly if I have to and not worry about the red dot (but I carry a back up batteries in the stock jic)

2-my mid range ar, millet dms2(1.5-6) black sight with a red dot if I turn it on, this is my second go to ar, mid range shooting and back up home defense ar no buis on it(with a back up battery in the grip) but it shows black all the time

3-my long range ar has a burris 4-16 scope on it, don't think it'll ever be used in a sd/hd scenario, no buis on it.

now if im on the range shooting, and the sight/scope wont turn on, that's just a bad day on the range, if im trying to defend my house, and all I have is an electronic sight, and it wont turn on, that's a really bad day, if I make it through that day!

if I was military/leo you bet your a$$ I'd have back up sights on my rifle, at least to co witness my red dot

 

[Beowulf]

I'm no tactical operator (though I have played one in a video game), but I put BUIS on my guns simply to prevent my range time being ruined because I wasn't smart enough to check the batteries in my main sight (which has happened before). Sure, I try to remember to have batteries in my range bag, but those can be forgotten (or you take a different bag, etc...).

Now, in your case, if it's an issue with fitment on the gun itself, that might be a different story. If you can't even deploy the sights or use them with scope or red dot on, then that might change the equation for you.

 

[Trigger Time]

Here's the gun that shot bin laden. Used by special operations and everything about it is commonly seen nowadays. Notice no backup sights. Because work is done mostly at night. I still would use this during the day without backups. But if you don't have night vision then I wouldn't step outside at night if shtf you'll be easy Pickens lol.
Backups are typically a good idea as long as you have QD mounts to get your optic out of the way if it prevents you from flipping up your rear sight. Or if your optic falls off you're good too lol

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[TacticalFun]

We had backups on our m4 (Matech or KAC) But if we were running something without a fsb we usually did not. On my personal rifles anything under 18" have buis...because if it can be broken i will break it.

 

[JollyMon]

I have BUIS on my most of my ARs. Like others have mentioned, if my battery craps out and I didnt bring a spare..... thats the main reason. But I also only use aimpoint micros so the batteries last 5 years so..... It just depends on the gun. I have an AR that only has a scope and no BUIS..... why would I need it on that when I would have to remove the scope just to flip up that back sight.


The Governor didnt need them.

 

[Tactically Fat]

I'm even afeard to mock this set up at home as it'll knock the zero off the RDS that I currently have. Bummer.

I DO have a stripped upper that I might be able to attempt a comparison on, however.

All an interesting thought process. I really do thank you all for your own input and examples.

Still an on-going process for me - obviously. Perhaps I'll sell the G19 for a few more funds so I can actually just go ahead and buy/build another complete upper and just have TWO pew pew bangy shooty shooty things.

 

[shootersix]

Here's the gun that shot bin laden. Used by special operations and everything about it is commonly seen nowadays. Notice no backup sights. Because work is done mostly at night. I still would use this during the day without backups. But if you don't have night vision then I wouldn't step outside at night if shtf you'll be easy Pickens lol.
Backups are typically a good idea as long as you have QD mounts to get your optic out of the way if it prevents you from flipping up your rear sight. Or if your optic falls off you're good too lol

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if im not mistaken, that rifle has a back up sight in addition to the holo, sight its the tan looking box on the top rail, its both a visible and ir laser

 

[Trigger Time]

if im not mistaken, that rifle has a back up sight in addition to the holo, sight its the tan looking box on the top rail, its both a visible and ir laser

Yeah that's what I am saying. The red dot and then the IR laser is the backup. Same as my night setup AR which I don't have a pic of it on me but basicly it's this gun of mine below (except my dedicated night gun has a BCM 9" 300 upper) and doesn't have backup iron sights but does have a peq15 with a aimpoint micro. But notice below I have the same "tan box" it's a peq15 IR laser/illuminator and red visible laser as well. I'll post pics later (within a couple days) if it.
so basicly you and I are in total agreement we just said it different ways. But the initial question was about BUIS which stands for "back up iron sights", so that's what I mainly focused my response on regarding daytime guns.
The Peq-15 daytime visible red laser can be seen better in doors but not so much outside in sunlight, so I wouldn't count on it as a backup at daylight. Primary is the red dot or holo sight. Therefore BUIS's are a must in the day.

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[6mm Shoot]

I have one AR with a red dot. All the others have scopes on them. Out of over 40 plus years of shooting I have only had one scope fail me in all that time. I do keep a set of back up sites in my goody bag just in case. Most of the time I keep a back up 1X4 scope in it also.

To be honest I doubt that I could hit beyond 100 yards with irons. The only irons I have used in years are on hand guns. I am old and the eyes just are not what they were.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Simple question: If my optics failed, the penalty would be...

Is that penalty something that's acceptable? If so, then nope, not required. Is the penalty more than your willing to accept? Required.

 

[shootersix]

Yeah that's what I am saying. The red dot and then the IR laser is the backup. Same as my night setup AR which I don't have a pic of it on me but basicly it's this gun of mine below (except my dedicated night gun has a BCM 9" 300 upper) and doesn't have backup iron sights but does have a peq15 with a aimpoint micro. But notice below I have the same "tan box" it's a peq15 IR laser/illuminator and red visible laser as well. I'll post pics later (within a couple days) if it.
so basicly you and I are in total agreement we just said it different ways. But the initial question was about BUIS which stands for "back up iron sights", so that's what I mainly focused my response on regarding daytime guns.
The Peq-15 daytime visible red laser can be seen better in doors but not so much outside in sunlight, so I wouldn't count on it as a backup at daylight. Primary is the red dot or holo sight. Therefore BUIS's are a must in the day.

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nice setup!

 

[courier6]

One time I ordered a "display" aimpoint for eurooptics. It was an aimpoint and I was getting it sighted in. I pulled the trigger with dot on target "BANG", as soon as I go for a follow up shot the red dot was completely shut off. I can't imagine being in a life or death situation and having that happen. Ever since, every rifle has some sort of back up sighting system.

That aimpoint went straight back and I went with a new one, no more "display" optics for me. Who knows what they were doing with them before I received mine.

 

[nipprdog]

I lean in the opposite direction. If I only had one "do-it-all" rifle than I would go iron sights only.

I will admit I don't have much trigger time behind a scope or a red dot, but it seems that iron sites would be more versitle for a wider rangle of uses. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable or equipped to defend my home with a scoped rifle, just as I likely wouldn't be proficient hitting a coyote at 300 yards with just a red dot.

Knowing how to properly use iron sights would help in both of those situation.

What about a low light situation that wouldn't allow you to use iron sights?

 

[MCgrease08]

Simple question: If my optics failed, the penalty would be...

Is that penalty something that's acceptable? If so, then nope, not required. Is the penalty more than your willing to accept? Required.

You have a nice way of getting right to the heart of it.

 

[cop car]

Sigh. Yes. Have backup sights. With how many backup sight options there are out there, give me one good reason why you wouldn't put backup sights on your weapon? The debate comes in if you do angled offsets, folding or fixed front, folding or fixed rear. Etc.


I have an exps, magnifier and magpul pro backup sights all neatly on the upper receiver. So it's not an issue of real estate. Front sight is fixed M4. It's 3/4 co witness so it's not obstructing much. Lighter, stronger, less to go wrong or fall off, as well as cheaper. Everyone should have ONE rifle. THE rifle. What you will grab to leave your house forever. All the other ones should be supplements and or fun guns. Spare no expense on your one rifle. Make it simple. Trust it. Frequently handle and use it.

 

[MCgrease08]

What about a low light situation that wouldn't allow you to use iron sights?

In what context or scenario ? Low light for home defense? A rail mounted flashlight works fine. Out to distance? Wait until the sun comes up.

Lord knows I need to take a low light class. I have very little experience in that situation. But I still think good fundamentals with irons will still allow for proficiency in more situations. Remember, the question was about having one rifle. I think we'd all agree that no single rifle can do everything.

If one NEEDS a gun for low light, one could set one up a la Trigger Time.

 

[sgreen3]

With my rifle that I'm running a 1-4 optic on I don't use BUIS, I don't really foresee the scope to stop functioning. But I guess a case could be made for both sides of the fence. I just don't see a need in them..

 

[BigMoose]

I am a little weird. All my ARs are fixed carry handle A2 and A1 type. I don't even trust the BUIS stuff. I want a solid set of iron sights that are good to go. The A2 is that.

For night the AR has a large rear ring that helps on the A2 sights.

That doesn't mean I don't have some optics. I do. I have a carry handle colt scope.

But I have gone one further. I have a AN/PVS-4 upgraded to a GEN3 tube.

Yeah I know that scopes are good at gathering light and that red dots have iliminated dots to use with rifle mounted lights. But as recent conflicts have shown. Night vision is a GAME CHANGER. So during the night, my rifle is surely ready. But the irons will be there and ready on the carry handle should I need them.

 

[actaeon277]

Simple question: If my optics failed, the penalty would be...

Is that penalty something that's acceptable? If so, then nope, not required. Is the penalty more than your willing to accept? Required.

 

[Sniper 79]

None of my guns have back up sights. One gun I hacked the front sight off.

I shoot optic only. A quality 3-9x50 would get anything done.