DON’T Call 911, And DON’T “Help” the Police

[Eddie]

I just came across this case and felt that it fit in really well with some of the discussion on this thread. Its long so I just cut the part out about the arrest. If there is enough interest I can post the whole thing:

Rachid Dallaly appeals his convictions for resisting law enforcement as a class A misdemeanor[1] and disorderly conduct as a class B misdemeanor.[2] Dallaly raises two issues, which we revise and restate as whether the evidence is sufficient to sustain his convictions. We affirm.
The facts most favorable to the convictions follow. On December 5, 2008, Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Officer Eli Raisovich, Jr. was on patrol and observed Dallaly walking southbound along Lafayette Road in Marion County. Officer Raisovich witnessed Dallaly "remove[] something white from his mouth and [throw] it into the brush line," and he then turned his car around, pulled up in front of him, activated his emergency equipment, and stopped Dallaly. Transcript at 11. Officer Raisovich asked Dallaly "why he threw something on the ground," and Dallaly stated that he "did not." Id. Officer Raisovich told Dallaly that "I did see you remove something from your mouth and throw it on the ground, and [Dallaly again] stated he did not." Id. Officer Raisovich then informed Dallaly that he was going to cite him for littering, and he asked Dallaly for his identification. The object Dallaly discarded into the brush line was later determined to be an apple core.
Dallaly informed Officer Raisovich that his identification was in his backpack, and he began to look for it. After Dallaly could not find his identification, "[Dallaly] told [Officer Raisovich] that [Officer Raisovich] could not detain him, that [Dallaly] wasn't going to look anymore because he was cold, his fingers were cold." Id. at 12. After Officer Raisovich told Dallaly that he still needed to provide his identification, Dallaly "began to tell [Officer Raisovich] again that [he] couldn't detain [Dallaly], began to get animated, curse, picked up his backpack and started to take a step away from [Officer Raisovich]." Id. Officer Raisovich told him to stop, but Dallaly still proceeded to leave. Dallaly then "turned aggressively toward [Officer Raisovich], [Officer Raisovich] grabbed [Dallaly's] right wrist with his right arm and barred [Dallaly] against [his police car] . . . ." Id. When Officer Raisovich reached for Dallaly, he "felt [Dallaly's] stance change dramatically. His demeanor changed." Id. at 24.
Officer Jeffrey Mehrlich then showed up on the scene to assist Officer Raisovich. After Officer Raisovich told Dallaly that he was under arrest, Dallaly continued to struggle by "pulling his hands up inside [his clothing] so his hand was very difficult to [handcuff]."

 

[Dryden]

Being a LEO, I take offense to your comments. I dont have the "us against them" approach that you mention. Also, if you would say good morning to me I would say it back. Don't lump us all together like you did.

I've been going to PopGuns for about five years. I see LEO in there many times. After the first two years of saying hello, I stopped. It just seemed to make each officer angry and I'd get ZERO response back. I even had my wife along with me when this occued once. She to was taken back by the cold non-response.
I used to say hello at sporting events, airshows, and other public events. Not anymore. It ain't worth the wrath of someone who seems to always be having a bad day.

P.S. My brother was a cop in NYS. I don't have anything personal against all cops.... just the ones with that "Us vs them attitude". And I'm seeing it more and more.

 

[PatMcGroyne]

That is bad news; now this REALLY BAD NEWS:

Eventually these Judges (overblown lawyers) get appointed to the SCOTUS !! Pat

 

[Eddie]

Just to be fair

This guy got pretty fair treatment from the LEO, but did he learn anything?

France raises two issues, which we restate as whether the evidence is sufficient to sustain his convictions.
Facts
On the evening of December 3, 2008, Officer T. Michael Wilson of the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department was typing a report in his vehicle in a fire station parking lot when he heard something behind his vehicle. Officer Wilson saw France riding a bicycle through the fire station parking lot. France was unable to ride the bicycle in a straight line and was weaving. As Officer Wilson was getting out of his vehicle, he heard breaking glass and saw France trying to retrieve a bag that he had dropped on the ground. The bag contained an alcoholic beverage in a glass bottle and a forty-ounce can of beer. Officer Wilson tried to have a conversation with France regarding France's failure to have a light on his bicycle as required by a Marion County ordinance, but France was "very hateful and belligerent" to Officer Wilson. Tr. p. 9. Officer Wilson noticed that France had red, bloodshot, and watery eyes, slurred speech, unsteady balance, and an odor of alcohol on his breath. Because the fire trucks come out of the fire station "very suddenly and unexpectedly," Officer Wilson advised France not to ride his bicycle in the parking lot, and France started to leave.
France then circled back toward Officer Wilson, yelled at him, and spit a "large glob of spit and snot " at Officer Wilson. Id at 10. Officer Wilson sidestepped the "loogy" and grabbed France's left bicep and jacket, causing him and the bicycle to stop. Id at 12. Officer Wilson told France to get off the bicycle, but he refused. France "violently jerked his left hand across his body," and Officer Wilson used a "straight arm bar" maneuver to pull France off his bicycle and onto the ground. Id at 13. Officer Wilson told France to get on his stomach, but France refused and tucked his arms underneath his body. Officer Wilson then used two "distractionary knee strikes" to France's midsection and was able to handcuff France. Id at 14.

 

[Joe Williams]

This guy got pretty fair treatment from the LEO, but did he learn anything?
snip.

Hopefully not to spit at cops, it's nasty, and they'll get really nasty in return. As they should.

 

[j706]

I guess the moral of this story is avoid becoming a felon. If you do become a felon,don't be in possession of firearms. Everyone knows that felons can't possess firearms..everyone knows that,you don't need to be notified by the court. It sounds to me like the bozo met all the elements of the crime. And now it is every body's fault including the courts for not telling him he was prohibited from possessing firearms, the cops for charging him and the 2nd court for not letting him present evidence that has noting to do with the case. Jeezzzz.

1) Don't commit a felony
2) If you do-stay away from firearms.
3) If you can't avoid the first two,don't call the police to your home for a broken window.
4) If you can't avoid the above mentioned three and you get busted...take the plea!!
5) Don't blame the police for all your trouble's.

No body wants to take responsibility for their actions any more.

 

[Yeah]

I'm not a big fan of lifetime bans for much of anything. Or of overbroad presumptions. I don't know if the thread has moved on, but the in the original story the guy broke into a school 20 years ago, no mention of a component of violence to it. So I'm not sure how prohibiting him from possessing a firearm affects his ability to commit further break ins if he is so disposed.

And to put a finer point on it it looks like the issue is not possession, it is "guns in his dominion or control".

But he knew, of should have known, the consequences before he did it. And he should have told his wife, before they cohabitated, that she needed to get rid of her guns because of something he did 20 years prior.

 

[public servant]

I guess the moral of this story is avoid becoming a felon. If you do become a felon,don't be in possession of firearms. Everyone knows that felons can't possess firearms..everyone knows that,you don't need to be notified by the court. It sounds to me like the bozo met all the elements of the crime. And now it is every body's fault including the courts for not telling him he was prohibited from possessing firearms, the cops for charging him and the 2nd court for not letting him present evidence that has noting to do with the case. Jeezzzz.

1) Don't commit a felony
2) If you do-stay away from firearms.
3) If you can't avoid the first two,don't call the police to your home for a broken window.
4) If you can't avoid the above mentioned three and you get busted...take the plea!!
5) Don't blame the police for all your trouble's.

No body wants to take responsibility for their actions any more.

 

[Manan]

Sad, but not surprising. Over 20 years a cop here and I saw this stuff everyday. Is there a defense fund established yet?

 

[ATF Consumer]

The whole concept of losing one of your rights, even after doing your time is completely ridiculous. If you are not competent enough to have all of your rights, then you should not be released back into the public arena. You are either a free person or you are not. These infringements upon free citizens need to stop.

 

[Kick]

We use catch phrases like War on Drugs or Zero Tolerance and then we try to substitute absolute rules for common sense and discretion. First offenders used to get a break, now they get absolutely crushed. I am a firm believer that 99% of us can learn from a second chance or take a warning to heart. The 1% that doesn't will re-offend and get caught. You don't hear about cops driving kids home to their parents anymore or prosecutors letting off a first time offender. Its become too much of a numbers game and its pervasive to the system. I don't understand where protecting the community turned into "arrest everybody".

Look up the stats at how many people get released from prison and end up right back in. You will be shocked.

Also as gun owners, everytime some moron with a gun does something stupid we want it to be known that you cannot judge many based on the actions of a few. As a LEO I am asking for the same courtsey that you would want.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Look up the stats at how many people get released from prison and end up right back in. You will be shocked.

Also as gun owners, everytime some moron with a gun does something stupid we want it to be known that you cannot judge many based on the actions of a few. As a LEO I am asking for the same courtsey that you would want.

I agree...this is not to be a free for all bash fest on LEO's

 

[ATF Consumer]

The whole concept of losing one of your rights, even after doing your time is completely ridiculous. If you are not competent enough to have all of your rights, then you should not be released back into the public arena. You are either a free person or you are not. These infringements upon free citizens need to stop.

After reading this again this morning, I wish I could rep myself.

 

[CAMOEDTJ]

so dose that mean that a permit holder and law abiding citizen is not alowed to own or posess fire arms even in a locked safe because a family member was convicted of a felloney that lives in the same house hold

 

[Roadie]

so dose that mean that a permit holder and law abiding citizen is not alowed to own or posess fire arms even in a locked safe because a family member was convicted of a felloney that lives in the same house hold

Pretty much. It would be bad for the person with the felony for sure, and possibly for the gun owner as well.

 

[CAMOEDTJ]

Pretty much. It would be bad for the person with the felony for sure, and possibly for the gun owner as well.

so if the fire arms are locked in a safe how could the fellon be in posseision of fire arms

 

[Roadie]

so if the fire arms are locked in a safe how could the fellon be in posseision of fire arms

They are in the same home. I can't remember the exact legal term, I want to say "contributory possession" but I may be off. It's the same interpretation of "possession" that has allowed a non-licensed passenger in a car, to be charge with illegal possession of a firearm because a gun was on the same side of the car as they were.

I had a friend that lived in California. He was busted for a minor marijuana charge, and part of his probation was he was forbidden from being around firearms. He moved into a house that had been converted into apartments, with a common kitchen area. His parole officer came by for a surprise check, and one of the other tenants was cleaning his gun in the kitchen.

My friend parole was revoked, and he went back to jail.

Now I know this wasn't Indiana, but the same general thought applies here.

 

[ATF Consumer]

They are in the same home. I can't remember the exact legal term, I want to say "contributory possession" but I may be off. It's the same interpretation of "possession" that has allowed a non-licensed passenger in a car, to be charge with illegal possession of a firearm because a gun was on the same side of the car as they were.

I had a friend that lived in California. He was busted for a minor marijuana charge, and part of his probation was he was forbidden from being around firearms. He moved into a house that had been converted into apartments, with a common kitchen area. His parole officer came by for a surprise check, and one of the other tenants was cleaning his gun in the kitchen.

My friend parole was revoked, and he went back to jail.

Now I know this wasn't Indiana, but the same general thought applies here.

Those are crock of sh*t laws that need to disappear. It's absurd the way they make people guilty of breaking various laws that should not be in existence in the first place.
Just like, if you were walking down the street and a LEO decides to stop you because you look "suspicious". They can throw some arbitrary crap on you like "loitering in a high drug traffic area" or whatever else they want to make up.

 

[Kick]

I agree...this is not to be a free for all bash fest on LEO's

+ REP!

 

[PatMcGroyne]

Ain't that SO STRANGE!?

Post from YEAH won't load up! Hmmmmm. Pat