E15 Coming To Kill Your Car And Warranty

[mrjarrell]

The EPA, in their push for a green society have OK'ed the use of E15 and have even put out warning labels for display on pumps. The car manufacturers have protested this move and are making the case that cars will be damaged by this fuel and they'll cancel warranties because of this. It will also tank mileage. As with most nonsense, E15 will eventually be mandated by the government, and we'll see lots of damaged cars, mowers and other gas powered equipment. Politicians talk a good game, but in reality they allow crap like this all the time, especially if there's no money in it for them.

Ford, Toyota Criticize EPA Ethanol-Blend Fuel Proposal - Bloomberg

E.P.A.'s E15 Pump Labels Raise Ire of Automakers - NYTimes.com

 

[NYFelon]

Beautiful. Fuel systems everywhere cringe.

 

[Lucas156]

I'll put this on the list of "why I wish I kept my flexfuel ranger" Utter bull crap.

 

[IndySSD]

Something else to keep my eyes peeled for...

 

[Lucas156]

My only question is the regular gasoline without the E15 still going to be available after all this? I would hope so otherwise Im screwed

 

[Phil502]

Is it better for the economy if we all go broke buying all new stuff?

 

[printcraft]

Ethanol is a freaking scam.

It has a 1:1 ratio on energy consumption vs. energy output.
In other words you gain NOTHING by making it,
it takes just as much power to make from other
energy sources that it is able to produce.

Also on the consumption end as it produces less power
and mileage per gallon than gasoline.

NOT to mention burning our food as fuel..... I think like 40% of corn produced is going to ethanol production.

 

[RockofStrength]

Is it better for the economy if we all go broke buying all new stuff?

It's better for the government

 

[mrjarrell]

It's better for the government

And ADM and their ilk.

 

[Lucas156]

Is it better for the economy if we all go broke buying all new stuff?

I'll ride my bicycle before I go broke buying a new vehicle to run this crap.

 

[NYFelon]

Ethanol is a freaking scam.

It has a 1:1 ratio on energy consumption vs. energy output.
In other words you gain NOTHING by making it,
it takes just as much power to make from other
energy sources that it is able to produce.

Also on the consumption end as it produces less power
and mileage per gallon than gasoline.

NOT to mention burning our food as fuel..... I think like 40% of corn produced is going to ethanol production.

.....and that energy output is a recent development. Only in the last couple of years has ethanol evened out. When NYS mandated E10, ethanol was still net negative as a fuel in terms of energy output. This is absolutely asinine.

As for the second point, technically ethanol is made from field corn, or what I believe is used as animal feed. So in a roundabout way, we are in fact using our food as fuel, just indirectly. However, once the .gov starts subsidizing more greatly farmers to grow corn for fuel, instead of for food, how many of them will switch over to growing field corn instead of sweet corn? Not exactly the most genius move, putting your fuel supply and your food supply in direct competition. But, no one ever accused a politician of being reasonable.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Interesting story, and similar to two changes made to Diesel fuel a few years ago: B5 (5% Biofuel from various stocks) and ULSD (<15ppm Sulfur). In each case there were some serious concerns that were very justified. Both fuels could cause leaks to develop in fuel systems that were designed for more traditional #2 Diesel.

Much of the concern around E15 is probaly founded in this same concern, as rubber seals designed to seal a 100% petroleum product can struggle when they come in contact with a non-petroleum based liquid.

I'm sure the other concerns come from the overall effects on "Octane Rating" which is more or less the fuel's ability to resist knock, otherwise known as detonation or auto ignition (think of your gas engine tryinjg to act like a diesel). Modern cars that are designed for flexible fuels such as ethanol have sophisticated electronics that will adjust ignition timing to prevent knock. However, that usually comes a power and fuel economy disadvantage.


I think in the end the Biodiesel and ULSD changes were overall very minor in terms of effects on the overall vehicle population on the road, and I'm expecting this will be the same.



Changing gears and talking about the energy content...the same argument holds true on the Biodiesel front as well. The question we have to ask ourselves (which is what the EPA is trying to get us to think about) is how willing are we to start cutting ourselves off our dependence on foriegn oil?

The EPA generally opposes additional crude exploration domestically, leaving biofuel as the only viable domestic fuel source in there mind. The difficulty of course becomes that we quickly go energy negative and cannot produce near enough fuel stocks based on current technology and available acreage.


Now...somewhat in the EPA's defense, there are some good things that could come out of this type of policy in that there will be research companies that will continue to invest in ways to make biofuel more energy "positive" which means that profits for those companies can increase as a result. Not a bad thing at all as that is the kind of innovation that generally will result in new technologies and improvements that will impact more than just the auto industry.

 

[Lucas156]

how willing are we to start cutting ourselves off our dependence on foriegn oil?

Well if it uses more energy to make this product than the energy it puts out were not reducing our dependency on foreign oil by making it and using it. If it breaks even were using just as much oil as we would not using it are we not? Am I right?

 

[Johnson]

Well if it uses more energy to make this product than the energy it puts out were not reducing our dependency on foreign oil by making it and using it. If it breaks even were using just as much oil as we would not using it are we not? Am I right?

Yes, you are exactly right. You see it. I see it. And somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-15 others see it. The rest of the country is clueless and refuses to stand up to these abuses of the power of the federal government. Where in the constitution is the federal government granted the right to mandate this?

I'm starting to sound like a broken record, even to myself. But hey, someone has to ask the question.

 

[jon159753]

As one of the nation's top corn producers Indiana is well positioned to capitalize on the trend towards using ethanol as an alternative source of energy. It is estimated that Indiana's farming community brings in revenues of approximately $1.6 billion from the production of corn, the main ingredient of ethanol. As of 2005, Indiana had six ethanol facilities and two bio-diesel manufacturing facilities, with 10 additional facilities in the planning phases. Additionally, the ethanol industry has drawn attention as part of Indiana Senate Bill 353, which is designed to make ethanol fuels more available in Indiana. The bill would require the state's economic development agency to work closely with automobile manufacturers to improve awareness and labeling. It will also require that gas stations with E85 pumps be included in global positioning navigation software. Additionally, the bill also includes several economic enticements in the form of grants and tax credits for the sale and use of E85.
Indiana Investment Fund
Its good for IN to burn corn. With more use the manufacturing will become cheaper and better. I am sorry but we are the people that have to clean up the mess for the last 150 years of crapping on the earth. Sorry if your Ford 350 dully is not the top priority for the powers that be.

 

[desmodue]

As for the second point, technically ethanol is made from field corn, or what I believe is used as animal feed. So in a roundabout way, we are in fact using our food as fuel, just indirectly. However, once the .gov starts subsidizing more greatly farmers to grow corn for fuel, instead of for food, how many of them will switch over to growing field corn instead of sweet corn?

That field corn is your food. Very little sweet corn is grown in comparison. Yes some is made into animal feed. but it is where your corn flakes, taco shells, cornbread, nacho chips, corn oil, corn sweetener, etc comes from...or we can just burn it up as fuel just so a bunch of whinyass liberals can feel good about themselves.

 

[ryknoll3]

As one of the nation's top corn producers Indiana is well positioned to capitalize on the trend towards using ethanol as an alternative source of energy. It is estimated that Indiana's farming community brings in revenues of approximately $1.6 billion from the production of corn, the main ingredient of ethanol. As of 2005, Indiana had six ethanol facilities and two bio-diesel manufacturing facilities, with 10 additional facilities in the planning phases. Additionally, the ethanol industry has drawn attention as part of Indiana Senate Bill 353, which is designed to make ethanol fuels more available in Indiana. The bill would require the state's economic development agency to work closely with automobile manufacturers to improve awareness and labeling. It will also require that gas stations with E85 pumps be included in global positioning navigation software. Additionally, the bill also includes several economic enticements in the form of grants and tax credits for the sale and use of E85.
Indiana Investment Fund
Its good for IN to burn corn. With more use the manufacturing will become cheaper and better. I am sorry but we are the people that have to clean up the mess for the last 150 years of crapping on the earth. Sorry if your Ford 350 dully is not the top priority for the powers that be.

The only reason E85 even exists is because the Federal government gives a HUGE subsidy per gallon. Without that subsidy, E85 could NEVER compete in a free market. The government should let it stand or fall on its own merits instead of forcing it on us.

We should be looking to increase domestic OIL production, which is still is and will be for the near future the most economical way to fuel commerce in our country.

Alternatives are great, but they should come to the market when they are ready to compete, not because they are propped up for political reasons by Washington.

 

[indykid]

It's not the warranty that bothers me, it is the fact that I have two older classic cars that I do not care to have damaged by our stupid elected officials. It is bad enough taking them out every now and then knowing how many people on the road only know how to get a car moving, but have no idea how to truly control it!!! But that is another topic.

Time to write more letters.

 

[sbcman]

Very well timed with the Rural Council royal decree.

 

[desmodue]

As one of the nation's top corn producers Indiana is well positioned to capitalize on the trend towards using ethanol as an alternative source of energy. It is estimated that Indiana's farming community brings in revenues of approximately $1.6 billion from the production of corn, the main ingredient of ethanol. As of 2005, Indiana had six ethanol facilities and two bio-diesel manufacturing facilities, with 10 additional facilities in the planning phases. Additionally, the ethanol industry has drawn attention as part of Indiana Senate Bill 353, which is designed to make ethanol fuels more available in Indiana. The bill would require the state's economic development agency to work closely with automobile manufacturers to improve awareness and labeling. It will also require that gas stations with E85 pumps be included in global positioning navigation software. Additionally, the bill also includes several economic enticements in the form of grants and tax credits for the sale and use of E85.
Indiana Investment Fund
Its good for IN to burn corn. With more use the manufacturing will become cheaper and better. I am sorry but we are the people that have to clean up the mess for the last 150 years of crapping on the earth. Sorry if your Ford 350 dully is not the top priority for the powers that be.

The idea of turning vegetation into ethanol was sold as taking waste and by products and converting them into ethanol. The problem was (is) there is very little sugar content in most waste plant products. Only by utilizing the very best grain sources can enough ethanol be produced to make it even remotely possible. Note that I said possible, not reasonable or profitable or intelligent. The ONLY reason ethanol plants for fuel exist is because government mandates were written that required fuel producers to use a percentage of ethanol in their product. The entire ethanol fuel industry is propped up by a forced government mandate. Without the law, it is so overwhelmingly unprofitable that the entire industry would disappear within a few weeks if the law did not require ethanol blends.