End of natural gas in NY.

[eldirector]

Need to bring back coal.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Mine was 5500 watts, it ran the gas furnace, well pump, and hot water heater along with several small appliances.

I already knew the answer. The fact is the small generators that keep people like you an me going during those situations are not going to help at all in a total electric house.

 

[HoughMade]

You do know a gas furnace doesn't run without electricity, don't you?

With a furnace, yes, but NYC is largely steam heated, something like 80%, which uses little to no electricity.

 

[JettaKnight]

How big of a generator does it take to get the NG furnace in operation? Now do the same with all electric heat.

Probably only a couple of amps.

But we're also talking about NYC here. How many of those residents have generators?


It's stupid rule, but let's not pretend NG is magical.



Side question: why does America love forced air whereas Europe loves radiant hot water?

 

[JettaKnight]

With a furnace, yes, but NYC is largely steam heated, something like 80%, which uses little to no electricity.

Which is why I say NYC can make their dumb laws, but keep them in NYC.

 

[eldirector]

Probably only a couple of amps.

But we're also talking about NYC here. How many of those residents have generators?


It's stupid rule, but let's not pretend NG is magical.



Side question: why does America love forced air whereas Europe loves radiant hot water?

Americans: mostly new construction and easy to run ductwork.
Europeans: "New" means built after 1800. Easier to heat individual rooms and/or run small pipes.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Side question: why does America love forced air whereas Europe loves radiant hot water?

Cheaper, Easier maintenance and combines with AC easily.

 

[BugI02]

With a furnace, yes, but NYC is largely steam heated, something like 80%, which uses little to no electricity.

Sigh. You know that essentially is just Manhattan up to the upper west side, yes? The other four boroughs heat just like everybody else - at least everybody from the 1920s

And that steam is largely a byproduct of waste heat from electricity generation by ConEd. I don't think solar and wind create much steam

 

[HoughMade]

Sigh. You know that essentially is just Manhattan up to the upper west side, yes? The other four boroughs heat just like everybody else - at least everybody from the 1920s

And that steam is largely a byproduct of waste heat from electricity generation by ConEd. I don't think solar and wind create much steam

Of the 80% (large buildings) that use steam heat, the majority of the steam is in the building, maybe 70%. The Con Ed is like 10%

 

[BugI02]

Of the 80% (large buildings) that use steam heat, the majority of the steam is in the building, maybe 70%. The Con Ed is like 10%

Oil fired requires a fuel pump and NG requires gas control valve(s,) both operated by electricity. In a power failure, the water or steam already distributed through the pipes will continue to release heat until equilibrium, but no more heat is being injected into the system until power comes back on (except for potentially the ConEd steam pipe system)

 

[Flash-hider]

My Great Grandpa built the current house on the farm in 1911. It has hot water heat and cast-iron radiators in every room. It went from coal to fuel oil, to natural gas. It was a gravity flow system, and no electricity was needed which made it nice when the electric went out the furnace would still function. We had to replace the boiler in 2012. I was hoping to get a system like the original but alas, the new one that is no bigger than a large suitcase does need electric to function. Nothing beats coming in from a cold winters day and sitting your rear end on a nice hot radiator.

 

[Leo]

With a furnace, yes, but NYC is largely steam heated, something like 80%, which uses little to no electricity.

Yes, when you live in multi story apartment buildings in a large city, all bets are off for individual solutions for comfortable survival. If the systems are down, you are down if you cannot escape.

 

[Leo]

My Great Grandpa built the current house on the farm in 1911. It has hot water heat and cast-iron radiators in every room. It went from coal to fuel oil, to natural gas. It was a gravity flow system, and no electricity was needed which made it nice when the electric went out the furnace would still function. We had to replace the boiler in 2012. I was hoping to get a system like the original but alas, the new one that is no bigger than a large suitcase does need electric to function. Nothing beats coming in from a cold winters day and sitting your rear end on a nice hot radiator.

That is the most flexible solution and still viable today. Hot water, be it old fashion iron radiators, exchangers with blowers or tubing in floor, you have lots of options to supplement the main system. I know a man with an LP gas fired boiler that also plumbs to an outdoor wood burning boiler. When he is home, a good load of wood burns and makes good heat all day, When he is away, the LP boiler keeps everything from freezing. It helps that he lives on a very large wooded property. Just cleaning what falls during storms is a big pile of wood.

 

[Flash-hider]

That is the most flexible solution and still viable today. Hot water, be it old fashion iron radiators, exchangers with blowers or tubing in floor, you have lots of options to supplement the main system. I know a man with an LP gas fired boiler that also plumbs to an outdoor wood burning boiler. When he is home, a good load of wood burns and makes good heat all day, When he is away, the LP boiler keeps everything from freezing. It helps that he lives on a very large wooded property. Just cleaning what falls during storms is a big pile of wood.

Plus, hot water heat is a nice even heat. Sounds like a nice set up.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Dad built the house I'm in with radiant floor heat (oil fired boiler) back in 1952, but eventually the lines became clogged with lime and sediment and stopped working. I remember when the family dog and cat knew where every "hot spot" was on the floors.

 

[amboy49]

With a furnace, yes, but NYC is largely steam heated, something like 80%, which uses little to no electricity.

What generates the steam ? I would assume water has to heated to create steam (?) What fuel is used to heat the water ?

My father had baseboard radiator heat in our house. He used liquid propane to heat the water. It is correct to say little electricity was utilized for heat but steam heat doesn’t rule out the need for coal or liquified natural gas to warm the water in the boiler that circulated to the radiators.

 

[actaeon277]

 

[JettaKnight]

What generates the steam ?

Peter Gabriel?

 

[actaeon277]

Peter Gabriel?

He's just a sledgehammer

 

[BugI02]

What generates the steam ? I would assume water has to heated to create steam (?) What fuel is used to heat the water ?

My father had baseboard radiator heat in our house. He used liquid propane to heat the water. It is correct to say little electricity was utilized for heat but steam heat doesn’t rule out the need for coal or liquified natural gas to warm the water in the boiler that circulated to the radiators.

https://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/10087_EDF_BottomBarrel_ch2.pdf

Chapter 2 Boiler 101: typical NYC residential heating system