EPA. Shouldn't there be an adult in charge?

[John Galt]

What not mandate that they use unicorn urine! Cut their funding by half this year, and continue doing so each year until the stupid stuff stops. If they're big enough to do moronically insane stuff like this, then they're simply too big and have too many idiots on the payroll.

 

[churchmouse]

It would be an interesting exercise for all of us small government types to see where our various comfort levels reside on the repeal of legislation that was enacted in the name of public health, safety, civil rights, union organizing, financial ethics, etc.

The outcry from the sissy's would be loud and long.
Again, clean and safe is a good thing. Being an over bearing burden is not. Where do you draw that line.

 

[88GT]

It would be an interesting exercise for all of us small government types to see where our various comfort levels reside on the repeal of legislation that was enacted in the name of public health, safety, civil rights, union organizing, financial ethics, etc.

Yes, it would. Unfortunately, if INGO is any indication, those who have a higher threshold for the "go it alone" approach would smirk and snicker and make wild accusations about love for tyranny to those who draw the line sooner.

The wicked irony in these discussions is that the anarchical libertarians seem to forget that self-governance necessarily means having the freedom to increase government control.

I can't think of a single piece of legislation off the top of my head that I would having a problem repealing. Not to say there aren't some. Just can't think of any. Most didn't exist until after the start of the 20th century. We got along well enough through that point, didn't we?

I'd like to start with the elimination of all of the cabinet positions that didn't exist in the year 1800. And every federal regulatory agency as well. Legislation by fiat via these agencies probably comprises more of the control over our daily lives than any of the legislation passed by Congress. In terms of sheer numbers, and possibly scope.

 

[churchmouse]

Yes, it would. Unfortunately, if INGO is any indication, those who have a higher threshold for the "go it alone" approach would smirk and snicker and make wild accusations about love for tyranny to those who draw the line sooner.

The wicked irony in these discussions is that the anarchical libertarians seem to forget that self-governance necessarily means having the freedom to increase government control.

I can't think of a single piece of legislation off the top of my head that I would having a problem repealing. Not to say there aren't some. Just can't think of any. Most didn't exist until after the start of the 20th century. We got along well enough through that point, didn't we?

I'd like to start with the elimination of all of the cabinet positions that didn't exist in the year 1800. And every federal regulatory agency as well. Legislation by fiat via these agencies probably comprises more of the control over our daily lives than any of the legislation passed by Congress. In terms of sheer numbers, and possibly scope.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There are those in this country that would pollute and damage the eco system for profit. But like equal rights, it started out with good intention but is now a tool for those who seek control and power. Loose analogy but you get my drift.

 

[Carmelbythecorn]

Any time police tactics are implemented with the goal being to attempt to preempt crime, liberty is lost.

 

[hornadylnl]

Any time police tactics are implemented with the goal being to attempt to preempt crime, liberty is lost.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Yes, it would. Unfortunately, if INGO is any indication, those who have a higher threshold for the "go it alone" approach would smirk and snicker and make wild accusations about love for tyranny to those who draw the line sooner.

The wicked irony in these discussions is that the anarchical libertarians seem to forget that self-governance necessarily means having the freedom to increase government control.

I can't think of a single piece of legislation off the top of my head that I would having a problem repealing. Not to say there aren't some. Just can't think of any. Most didn't exist until after the start of the 20th century. We got along well enough through that point, didn't we?

I'd like to start with the elimination of all of the cabinet positions that didn't exist in the year 1800. And every federal regulatory agency as well. Legislation by fiat via these agencies probably comprises more of the control over our daily lives than any of the legislation passed by Congress. In terms of sheer numbers, and possibly scope.

Weve had so much governmental control in our lives, our parents', and grandparents' lives that it would be difficult to fully picture life without it. Sure, we can envision life without restrictions on gun ownership and usage for example. But what about many of the safety net stuff like unemployment, SS, Medicare? Government largess has robbed people of their self governance and responsibility for their own affairs.

As another example, we depend on government to make sure our food is safe, our workplaces are free of hazards, etc. Should somebody screw up, we count on some agency with arrest or fine authority to come to our rescue.

Imagine how our lives would change if we had to actually save our own money for retirement, if we lost our jobs, or if some manufacture sold us some product without a gazillion warning stickers or a car without seat belts.

 

[churchmouse]

Weve had so much governmental control in our lives, our parents', and grandparents' lives that it would be difficult to fully picture life without it. Sure, we can envision life without restrictions on gun ownership and usage for example. But what about many of the safety net stuff like unemployment, SS, Medicare? Government largess has robbed people of their self governance and responsibility for their own affairs.

As another example, we depend on government to make sure our food is safe, our workplaces are free of hazards, etc. Should somebody screw up, we count on some agency with arrest or fine authority to come to our rescue.

Imagine how our lives would change if we had to actually save our own money for retirement, if we lost our jobs, or if some manufacture sold us some product without a gazillion warning stickers or a car without seat belts.

My all time favorite sticker. Bought a new mower. It had a warning sticker t not to stick a hand or foot under the deck. I guess some guy picked up his mower and tried to trim his hedges. It ended badly. We have really been numbed down as a society and I think with just a few exceptions would be lost without big brother. Sad.

 

[Enfieldno4mk1]

Ok. I work at a Steel Mill. I get to see all the bad stuff we scrub to keep it from poisoning the environment. I've studied history, and seen what the Mills can do when unchecked.

But, this is the EPA unchecked.
FOX News - Top Stories - Top Stories - EPA blasted for requiring oil refiners to add fuel that's merely hypothetical

Requiring a company to us a NON-EXISTANT product. Then, reducing their fine by 98 percent and considering that generous?

When liberals can't get their way through the normal legislative process , they simply use some bloated, overbearing government agency. Or our current occupant in the White House merely issues an executive order and they get what they want.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Any time police tactics are implemented with the goal being to attempt to preempt crime, liberty is lost.

 

[88GT]

Weve had so much governmental control in our lives, our parents', and grandparents' lives that it would be difficult to fully picture life without it. Sure, we can envision life without restrictions on gun ownership and usage for example. But what about many of the safety net stuff like unemployment, SS, Medicare? Government largess has robbed people of their self governance and responsibility for their own affairs.

As another example, we depend on government to make sure our food is safe, our workplaces are free of hazards, etc. Should somebody screw up, we count on some agency with arrest or fine authority to come to our rescue.

Imagine how our lives would change if we had to actually save our own money for retirement, if we lost our jobs, or if some manufacture sold us some product without a gazillion warning stickers or a car without seat belts.

If you're asking me personally, I would gladly forego all the "safety" nets. I can imagine life without them. America c.1905 wouldn't be a bad place to start.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

If you're asking me personally, I would gladly forego all the "safety" nets. I can imagine life without them. America c.1905 wouldn't be a bad place to start.

Me too.

 

[Carmelbythecorn]

If you're asking me personally, I would gladly forego all the "safety" nets. I can imagine life without them. America c.1905 wouldn't be a bad place to start.

Couple of years ago I vacationed in Mexico. There are no "safety" nets there. They were doing some construction on the sidewalks and there was a pipe sticking up 12" - 14" out of the dirt in the middle of the unmarked walkway. I mentioned to my wife that no one would be allowed near that pipe in the US because of potential liability claims. That lack of safety net was actually refreshing. Personal responsibility....hmmmmm....

 

[churchmouse]

Couple of years ago I vacationed in Mexico. There are no "safety" nets there. They were doing some construction on the sidewalks and there was a pipe sticking up 12" - 14" out of the dirt in the middle of the unmarked walkway. I mentioned to my wife that no one would be allowed near that pipe in the US because of potential liability claims. That lack of safety net was actually refreshing. Personal responsibility....hmmmmm....

That would claim at least 5 or more "Texting while walking" victims here in the states.

 

[rambone]

Environmental protection regs constitutionally belong at the state level, not federal.

 

[manwithnoname]

Couple of years ago I vacationed in Mexico. There are no "safety" nets there. They were doing some construction on the sidewalks and there was a pipe sticking up 12" - 14" out of the dirt in the middle of the unmarked walkway. I mentioned to my wife that no one would be allowed near that pipe in the US because of potential liability claims. That lack of safety net was actually refreshing. Personal responsibility....hmmmmm....

Well said!

Individual Liberty.
Individual responsibility.

 

[parsimonious]

I'm gunna go to the hospitol for angina!

Heard about this today, apparently old news:
EPA fines oil refiners for failing to use nonexistent biofuel « Hot Air
I kinda remember this, it was a big deal cause bush signed this into law, and
he also owned something akin to a zillion acres of switchgrass fields.
Dems insisted this proved bush was corrupt. I don't think this proves any
politician is corrupt. I thought politicians are corrupt, like kitties are funny.

I like kitties....I feel better now, let's just think about kitties.

 

[cobber]

Couple of years ago I vacationed in Mexico. There are no "safety" nets there. They were doing some construction on the sidewalks and there was a pipe sticking up 12" - 14" out of the dirt in the middle of the unmarked walkway. I mentioned to my wife that no one would be allowed near that pipe in the US because of potential liability claims. That lack of safety net was actually refreshing. Personal responsibility....hmmmmm....

You guys would love China. I can't begin to tell you all the little surprises you [STRIKE]can [/STRIKE] will run into every day.

I'm wondering what INGOers would think about adulterated products like toys with lead paint, milk with melamine, tainted pet food, brand-name knockoffs and pirated DVDs etc.

Not to say things aren't out of control here. I'd set the bar back to 1950 myself. I think the 1960s saw the real expansion of the nanny-state, with responsibility of the individual no longer a given.