Erosion Control

[canebreaker]

I use to watch craigslist and now marketplace. Have got some cheap and free deals on pavers, rock, brick and blocks.
My son and I watched a wall built. First blocks then covered with brick. 3 months after the wall was finished I saw a crew there cleaning up. I asked about the better stuff, larger broke and whole brick and blocks. Got 32 bags of mortar that had sat without cover too. At his culvert the mortar is stacked 2 bags high with brick and blocks behind them.
One ad had concrete test cores for 25 cents, 450 of them 45 miles away. 150 on my truck was a load. They stack great on one side of the culvert.
One ad had 600 12" castle stones for 50 cents 60 miles away, 200 per load. Building a wall along his driveway to divert water.
One ad said 300 brick. I watched it reduce until it was make offer. I said $50 and he took it. I got 780 brick.
One ad was for a free kidney shaped garden pond and stones. Remove it and it's yours. Got 60 stones, needed help getting 1 in my truck.
I had a girlfriend in Nashville, TN. Needed to build a wall to widen the driveway parking pad. Lot of old stone fences in the area that people won't let you have. Some land owners would let you get all you wanted that were laying around. I placed an ad on craigslist and got 5 replies. One ad had brick size stones with mortar for free, just pick up all you want. Used it to fill in the pad. Another ad had pea gravel sized crushed limestone free and they loaded too. Used it to fill in the pad too. Got 3 broken wheelbarrow, simple repairs.

 

[Remington 90T]

Socked drain tyle on your discharge, shallow scrape pond or rain gardens to slow your intake water. Will hold extra water for 24 hour and soak away eliminating a lot of sediment.

 

[BigMoose]

How accessible is the outlet for your lake? I'm thinking a load of rip rap would take care of that if you could get it back there.

My thoughts exactly. BIG ROCKS... at least 1 foot by 1 foot, preferably bigger... line the ground with them. Everything else, will be expensive... and a waste of money..

And it might even be state law...

https://www.in.gov/dnr/water/files/Sec5-10.pdf

 

[ditcherman]

Socked drain tyle on your discharge, shallow scrape pond or rain gardens to slow your intake water. Will hold extra water for 24 hour and soak away eliminating a lot of sediment.

Too many people buy sock tile, I guess thinking if it’s worth doing it’s worth doing right but the thing is thet it’s not for everywhere. Its all dependent on soil type.

I see landscapers “upsell” this and put it in the nastiest heavy clay or muck we have and they are just screwing their customer.

Not saying the OP isn’t where it’s needed, but at the same time he’s installing a carrier vessel, not an absorption field.

 

[firecadet613]

Too many people buy sock tile, I guess thinking if it’s worth doing it’s worth doing right but the thing is thet it’s not for everywhere. Its all dependent on soil type.

I see landscapers “upsell” this and put it in the nastiest heavy clay or muck we have and they are just screwing their customer.

Not saying the OP isn’t where it’s needed, but at the same time he’s installing a carrier vessel, not an absorption field.

@ditcherman what is your thought on putting rip rap or other debris into the current eroded area? Just masking the problem or would that stop it from getting worse?

The drain exits pretty deep into my woods, just thinking out loud if I have it exit at the creek, will it erode a bit away there?

Socked drain tyle on your discharge, shallow scrape pond or rain gardens to slow your intake water. Will hold extra water for 24 hour and soak away eliminating a lot of sediment.

This isn't your typical "pond". It's a spring fed, 2ac, 25'+ deep lake. While there is a creek that will flow into it (during very heavy rains), it's the underground spring that keeps it full.

 

[bobjones223]

Galvanized pipe rots out.

View attachment 341847

My old driveway culvert.

CMP has about a 30 year lifespan depending on conditions.

 

[bobjones223]

Plastic pipe, dual wall included, floats if there’s more water outside it than inside it. It’s just not very heavy. It will move around and possibly float away unsecured.

I know the guys at drainage solutions can tell you the best way to hook the pipes up so they’re soil tight.

I’m north central, not set up for retail but do have a lot of inventory usually for my own use and neighbors can come over and grab stuff.

We use Drainage Solutions also...they can hook you up no problem.

 

[bobjones223]

Too many people buy sock tile, I guess thinking if it’s worth doing it’s worth doing right but the thing is thet it’s not for everywhere. Its all dependent on soil type.

I see landscapers “upsell” this and put it in the nastiest heavy clay or muck we have and they are just screwing their customer.

Not saying the OP isn’t where it’s needed, but at the same time he’s installing a carrier vessel, not an absorption field.

I have found socked under drains to be non-effective. They plug and no longer serve the purpose. Also socked under drains are a perforated pipe...you don't want perforated pipe...you want solid wall pipe.

 

[ditcherman]

I have found socked under drains to be non-effective. They plug and no longer serve the purpose. Also socked under drains are a perforated pipe...you don't want perforated pipe...you want solid wall pipe.

Well it does depend on the application. If you have iron ochre which is some nasty stuff, or a certain kind of sand but don’t want or can’t buy knife slit pipe the sock is there.
I’m pretty fortunate to be in a fairly consistent area, according to talk in the facebook groups where many people have to switch between sock and not.

ETA I just noticed your location, I guess we’re neighbors.

 

[ditcherman]

@ditcherman what is your thought on putting rip rap or other debris into the current eroded area? Just masking the problem or would that stop it from getting worse?

The drain exits pretty deep into my woods, just thinking out loud if I have it exit at the creek, will it erode a bit away there?


This isn't your typical "pond". It's a spring fed, 2ac, 25'+ deep lake. While there is a creek that will flow into it (during very heavy rains), it's the underground spring that keeps it full.

From the picture I remember upthread I think riprap or concrete blocks or something substantial like that would be fine. It should definitely slow the erosion.

ETA Just reread your question about just moving the erosion to a new outlet. In the picture a lot of erosion is from the falling water. Of course just moving water could cause erosion, but not like falling water would. The key is to move it slow, or dispersed, so it doesn’t form a channel. Until it get to where it is supposed to be a channel.
And since we’re the ones with the thumbs, we get to decide where the channel is supposed to be!

 

[bobjones223]

Well it does depend on the application. If you have iron ochre which is some nasty stuff, or a certain kind of sand but don’t want or can’t buy knife slit pipe the sock is there.
I’m pretty fortunate to be in a fairly consistent area, according to talk in the facebook groups where many people have to switch between sock and not.

ETA I just noticed your location, I guess we’re neighbors.

Could be neighbors. Sounds like you are in the excavation business also?

We have just had more problem with socked under drains that regular perforated under drains with #8 stone back fill. Also if you thing about the millions of miles of under drains in farm fields...NONE of them are socked....just my $0.02.

 

[ditcherman]

Could be neighbors. Sounds like you are in the excavation business also?

We have just had more problem with socked under drains that regular perforated under drains with #8 stone back fill. Also if you thing about the millions of miles of under drains in farm fields...NONE of them are socked....just my $0.02.

I’m a strictly farm tile guy. I don’t speak “underdrain” I speak “lateral”. Sheridan area, prefer not to ditch in Hamilton county but will, cover Boone and Clinton and some farther.

Some of my cohorts do use sock tile, and have to pick and choose where to use it, but yes none right around here, northern and south and east I think.

Are you a subdivision prep guy?

 

[Remington 90T]

@ditcherman what is your thought on putting rip rap or other debris into the current eroded area? Just masking the problem or would that stop it from getting worse?

The drain exits pretty deep into my woods, just thinking out loud if I have it exit at the creek, will it erode a bit away there?


This isn't your typical "pond". It's a spring fed, 2ac, 25'+ deep lake. While there is a creek that will flow into it (during very heavy rains), it's the underground spring that keeps it full.

That is the reason you install Scrapes, or Rain gardens on any influent points to keep sediment out of a pond. Depending how far away your creek is?

 

[firecadet613]

That is the reason you install Scrapes, or Rain gardens on any influent points to keep sediment out of a pond. Depending how far away your creek is?

I may be misunderstanding you or vice versa, so my apologies. I don't believe a rain garden would work, deep in a forest.

There is no sediment flowing into it. It's fed by an underground spring that emerges just south of the lake. The valley behind it will get rain water running down in, during heavy rains. This isn't flat land, but very hilly.

Here's a picture showing the underground spring that feeds it. It makes its way to ground level just behind the bridge and you can see the valley / dry creek bed where water flows during heavy rains.

 

[bobjones223]

I’m a strictly farm tile guy. I don’t speak “underdrain” I speak “lateral”. Sheridan area, prefer not to ditch in Hamilton county but will, cover Boone and Clinton and some farther.

Some of my cohorts do use sock tile, and have to pick and choose where to use it, but yes none right around here, northern and south and east I think.

Are you a subdivision prep guy?

Commercial and Mulit-Family. Lots of apartment complexes, more Starbucks than I care to admit, and larger apartment buildings in and around downtown Indy. I am sure you have seen my projects in your travels.

 

[Michigan Slim]

I will give you all the broken crete you can haul. I'm in Syracuse right now though. We have a rather large pile to get rid of.

 

[canebreaker]

Fill the eroded hole with whatever material you can get, fill it at a slope. Clean 2 ft or more of the pipe, make a cut on top at center of the cleaned section until it bends touching the fill. Patch the cut as well as you can. Might want to look at some Utube videos on that. I'm thinking of using a larger PVC pipe. Could get a ft or more free from a construction site. Rip the pipe in half, lay on top of pipe with clamps, Heat to make it bent and fit better. Cover the patch with a long lasting tape/seal. Add more pipe to get the drain farther away from the dam. Cover the drainpipe with dirt.

 

[Remington 90T]

I may be misunderstanding you or vice versa, so my apologies. I don't believe a rain garden would work, deep in a forest.

I have three rain gardens both two acres, and one one acres. upper one I made two feet deep and gained 6inches of sediment in three years. I call it rain gardens because I plant natives to help slow run off, Others may call it scrapes. Main prepose is to slow run off to drop sediment to keep my pond cleaner.

 

[firecadet613]

I have three rain gardens both two acres, and one one acres. upper one I made two feet deep and gained 6inches of sediment in three years. I call it rain gardens because I plant natives to help slow run off, Others may call it scrapes. Main prepose is to slow run off to drop sediment to keep my pond cleaner.

I looked it up and understand what you're saying, that won't help me. I do not have an issue with sediment flowing in as an underground spring/creek feeds it. It does get covered with leaves in the fall though.

A quarter of the lake is in the woods, as is the overflow pipe (it does not go through my dam).

 

[firecadet613]

That's a LOT of water! We got a ton of rain last night, as I'm sure did many others on INGO.



Thinking my best bet will just be putting rocks / branches in the discharge valley to slow the waters flow after it exits the discharge.

In two years, can't say I've ever seen the overflow covered by 2" of water and it starting to make its way up the spillway...