Escorted out of the Glenbrook Mall

[gjclark]

I had my first run in with a police officer on Thursday at the mall. I give the meeting 3.5/5 stars. The officer approached me as I was looking at a really good deal on button downs in JC Penney. I was dressed in shirt, tie, v-neck and I cut my hair high and tight so his first question was to clarify that I wasn't an officer. He then told me that firearms were against the mall policy and he said when I signed up for my license to carry that it had a spot in there about private property and that since it was posted he could charge me for criminal trespassing. I told him that as a responsible carrier I always check doors just to make sure but didn't see anything and that there is no need to discuss trespassing as I am willing to leave without a fuss. At this point he asks me if I have a license and I tell him I do and ask if he would like to see it. He informs me that it's ok but that I should really consider carrying concealed in the mall "if I hadn't seen it we wouldn't be making this call. Also if a bad guy comes in he is shooting you first so that he can have 2 guns. Playing John Wayne will get you killed fast." I didn't discuss this point since I disagree but I kindly asked him if he could show me where no firearms was posted. It was inside the first set of doors on the wall written in the code of conduct "No Firearms or illegal weapons" I thanked him and apologized for missing the sign. He then told me "I appreciate you being relaxed about this. I like guns and always carry but you get guys that want to argue there constitutional rights and all it does is lead to an arrest. Also I will tell you that the constitutional right for guns only applies to the home. Away from home is a privilege and the state issues you a permit allowing you to do that." Again I disagreed so I just said, "No matter what your constitutional views the time to argue it is not at the point of contact with an officer" he replied in the affirmative and escorted me out completely. Told me he wasn't trying to be a jerk and I said he was fine and we shook hands and I left.

 

[femurphy77]

And in 3. . . .2. . . .1

 

[Lectric102002]

And in 3. . . .2. . . .1

OMG.........

Where to start ?

 

[gunworks321]

Wait for it.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

He then told me "I appreciate you being relaxed about this. I like guns and always carry but you get guys that want to argue there constitutional rights and all it does is lead to an arrest. Also I will tell you that the constitutional right for guns only applies to the home. Away from home is a privilege and the state issues you a permit allowing you to do that."

I'll have to go read it again, I guess. It must be in the fine print. Very fine print.

 

[IrishSon of Liberty]

Good on you for being a decent human being and not an interwebs lawyer creating a scene. I've never had issues at the mall, but then again, mine is usually covered. I carry a full size frame in OWB holster, but I have either a shirt of jacket draped over it. To each their own on carry style, but again, good on you for realizing a public argument wouldn't change their corporate policy.

 

[ATM]

I tried to find something, anything that the officer was correct about...

I was unsuccessful.

 

[Lectric102002]

Good on you for being a decent human being and not an interwebs lawyer creating a scene. I've never had issues at the mall, but then again, mine is usually covered. I carry a full size frame in OWB holster, but I have either a shirt of jacket draped over it. To each their own on carry style, but again, good on you for realizing a public argument wouldn't change their corporate policy.

I could care less about their corporate policy. I'm more worried about this cowboy rewriting the Constitution.

 

[jagee]

I tried to find something, anything that the officer was correct about...

I was unsuccessful.

He showed the OP the sign stating company policy, therefore he was correct about that...

 

[public servant]

I tried to find something, anything that the officer was correct about...

I was unsuccessful.

Hey...they shook hands. That has to count for something?

 

[ATM]

He showed the OP the sign stating company policy, therefore he was correct about that...

If he'd stopped at the fact that it was a posted rule, maybe, but he went to far: "...since it was posted he could charge me for criminal trespassing."

That would be a fabricated charge unless what was posted read NO TRESPASSING.

 

[ATM]

Hey...they shook hands. That has to count for something?

If the officer had at any point claimed that he had hands, sure.

 

[IrishSon of Liberty]

I could care less about their corporate policy. I'm more worried about this cowboy rewriting the Constitution.

One officer who has been under the guidance of Chief Crusty Dork and is working off duty mall security shouldn't be your end-all-be-all reference for anything Constitutional. He's rewriting as much about the Constitution as the OP would be rewriting their corporate policy. FWPD has had issues for years pertaining to 2A laws and Constitutional practices. Thankfully Chief Wigham was promoted to a newly created position by Mayor Tom Henry Winkler. Now Chief Dork doesn't have to answer to the public, just to Mayor Tom.

 

[dprimm]

Also I will tell you that the constitutional right for guns only applies to the home. Away from home is a privilege and the state issues you a permit allowing you to do that."

Hmmm, think the federal courts have ruled differently on this. California being the latest.

No point arguing ... a letter to the chief about keeping officers informed on the law might be in order if you are so inclined.

 

[cbhausen]

Did the OP get the officer's name? This begs for some follow-up as a "teachable moment".

My solution for carrying in places where signs have no force of law but could get me escorted out is to CC. But I always wear OWB so if it's too warm out or my wardrobe just happens to not cover it up then OC it is.

And I'm glad the Colonists didn't give the British 3.5/5 stars... We'd be living in a different country right now.

 

[CathyInBlue]

He showed the OP the sign stating company policy, therefore he was correct about that...

The criminal trespass statute does not give give special weight to a plaque screwed to the wall on the periphery of a gigantic ingress/egress area. The notice has to be posted, "at the main entrance in a manner that is either prescribed by law or likely to come to the attention of the public". Off to the side isn't likely to come to the attention of the public, hence, the only way to engage the criminal trespass statute is through the judgement of a court, or oral or written direct communication, and that is for personal banishment from the property, not inanimate object banishment.

I hold with what ATM said. Not the first thing the mall cop said, as related in the OP, was accurate or true.

 

[Tired of Lies]

Vote with your wallet and let them know about it.

Lowes in Anchorage had a lady manager up from the lower 48 who had a personal dislike for guns. So she had a lower manager put a sign on the door "No Guns". People obviously looked at the sign and turned around. Within an hour Home Depot across the street was full and we were fairly empty. It didn't take long for North Carolina to call and tell us to get those signs down. Someone had dropped a dime.

Alaska is a state though where if you are allowed to own a gun you can cc it. No requirement for any license. More and more liberals are moving to the state but the locals pretty much carry and don't want to be bothered. Unless you have a business people just have to go to a no weapons allowed sign can be a business killer. And, you cannot forbid an employee from keeping a weapon in their car in the parking lot for the most part. You can thank BP for that law.

If more people both carried and told corporate management their spending habits you would see a lot less of those signs.

 

[MDave]

Vote with your wallet and let them know about it.

Amen! As bad as Penny is doing they should be having OC days to drive up business.

 

[ticktwrter]

Funny, I carry concealed and go to malls, stores all sorts of places and never once had anyone challenge me about my concealed gun

 

[printcraft]

Funny, I carry concealed and go to malls, stores all sorts of places and never once had anyone challenge me about my concealed gun

Also: OP was the officer in question working for the mall?
Why was he enforcing mall policy?
Mall policy is not the law.

Now, if the mall or mall employees told you to leave you have to or he can enforce the trespassing portion.