E'ville SWAT raids innocent grandma after neighbor uses her wireless [VIDEO]

[rob63]

There are so many people running their mouths on the internet, that becomes a dangerous proposition.

What if police bust down a door and find out a 12-year-old was the "serious" threat? And in the process an entire family gets guns in their faces, or worse. Is that OK?

How about if the homeowner -- who has absolutely no idea the police are breaking in -- pulls out a shotgun to protect his family? What could go wrong?

No-knock raids, if they are ever used, need to be held to incredibly high levels of scrutiny. That did not happen.

If you would stop pulling part of a post and then using it out of context you would realize that I think the raid was a major screw-up. Obviously, that would require a level of intellectual honesty that you are apparently not capable of.

If you look at the part of my post that you deleted when quoting it, you will see that I don't think the raid should have happened in the first place. Stop truncating other people's posts you @sshat!

 

[rambone]

If you would stop pulling part of a post and then using it out of context you would realize that I think the raid was a major screw-up. Obviously, that would require a level of intellectual honesty that you are apparently not capable of.

If you look at the part of my post that you deleted when quoting it, you will see that I don't think the raid should have happened in the first place. Stop truncating other people's posts you @sshat!

I did not misread you. You said you were OK with the raid tactics if they go after the right house.

So let's say they go down the street and do the same raid to the actual Internet toughguy and his parents. They knock for 3 seconds. Grenades everywhere. Point guns at everyone and everything. That's OK? I say it is still a clusterf---. Feel free to disagree.

Yes, we agree that better investigation is needed. The tactics is what I'm commenting on. Just the direction of the muzzles alone showed major negligence.

 

[hornadylnl]

Somebody should troll known LEO houses until they find an unsecured wifi and post similar comments. Wonder if they'd use the same tactics.

 

[Jack Burton]

one of my neighbors has a wireless network named xfinitywifi with no password protection

Actually that is both true and untrue at the same time.

Comcast has a new feature that it enabled a few months ago in its effort to provide its subscribers to a seamless nationwide network.

They -- unknown to most customers -- use the customers modem to provide the semi-public wifi signal to the neighborhood. It broadcasts about 200 feet or so. The idea is that if you are already a Comcast customer you can then piggyback off from this wifi signal. But only those with existing Xfinity service can use it. If Comcast has enough homes in the neighborhood, or enough business accounts in the area, one would theoretically never lose a wifi signal as you move from place to place.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Somebody should troll known LEO houses until they find an unsecured wifi and post similar comments. Wonder if they'd use the same tactics.

Simply brilliant

 

[dsol]

30 minutes of investigative work could have prevented this. Like someone said, if the IP address went to a Starbucks, they wouldn't have gone in the way they did on that home. 5 minutes to discover it was an unsecured network should have been taken then 5 more minutes of thought to ponder if possibly the occupants of the home might not be responsible. Then another 10 minutes to discover who the occupants are and 10 more minutes to determine who they actually are and make a determination if they could actually be violent bomb makers, people mouthing off, or a grandmother who can barely turn on a computer.

 

[MTubbs1]

Someone needs to buy that granny and young lady these shirts.

Russian Roulette Clothing ? Freedom Of Speech - Sale!

 

[Timjoebillybob]

From what I see, this was not a no-knock but rather a normal warrant where the knock and announce rule was violated as reasonable time was not given to open the door.

If memory serves, that in itself is actionable in court, although oddly enough it does not trigger the exclusionary rule. I would think that violation is the plaintiff's most likely chance of proving a non-immunized violation, although I dunno what damages you can show.

I thought either the IN CoA or Supreme court has ruled that a standard warrant can be turned into a no-knock at the whim of the officers. Well maybe not whim, but if in their opinion the "totality of the circumstances" at the time of serving the warrant require it? In other words at the whim of the officers. And from the video it sounded like they broke the window prior to him beating on the door so they could throw the flash bang in.

Actually that is both true and untrue at the same time.

Comcast has a new feature that it enabled a few months ago in its effort to provide its subscribers to a seamless nationwide network.

They -- unknown to most customers -- use the customers modem to provide the semi-public wifi signal to the neighborhood. It broadcasts about 200 feet or so. The idea is that if you are already a Comcast customer you can then piggyback off from this wifi signal. But only those with existing Xfinity service can use it. If Comcast has enough homes in the neighborhood, or enough business accounts in the area, one would theoretically never lose a wifi signal as you move from place to place.

Ahh so that is why I got a call a while back from them that they needed to upgrade my modem to provide "better service". I haven't ordered it yet....

 

[IndyGal65]

Sitting in my home as I type this one of my neighbors has a wireless network named xfinitywifi with no password protection. There is also a second network available to me that only has wep security, which is notoriously easy to break. I would bet that you could find an unsecured network in pretty much any neighborhood anywhere. Exceptionally shoddy investigative work that deserves to be punished.

I don't have a problem with the raid itself. They handled it well considering that for all they knew they were going to be dealing with someone dangerous.

 

[hoosierdoc]

If you can trace IPs you can hack routers and look at MAC addresses. Unless there was an impending cause to raid there should probably be a bit more electronic sleuthing done before this happens again.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Actually that is both true and untrue at the same time.

Comcast has a new feature that it enabled a few months ago in its effort to provide its subscribers to a seamless nationwide network.

They -- unknown to most customers -- use the customers modem to provide the semi-public wifi signal to the neighborhood. It broadcasts about 200 feet or so. The idea is that if you are already a Comcast customer you can then piggyback off from this wifi signal. But only those with existing Xfinity service can use it. If Comcast has enough homes in the neighborhood, or enough business accounts in the area, one would theoretically never lose a wifi signal as you move from place to place.

I bought my own modem. Bought my own routers. Screw 'EM.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I thought either the IN CoA or Supreme court has ruled that a standard warrant can be turned into a no-knock at the whim of the officers. Well maybe not whim, but if in their opinion the "totality of the circumstances" at the time of serving the warrant require it?

It was the IN supreme court. Justices rule on 'no-knock' warrant executions | The Indiana Lawyer

I bought my own modem. Bought my own routers. Screw 'EM.

I'm using their modem, but it doesn't have wireless capability, I use my own wireless router for that.

 

[rob63]

I did not misread you. You said you were OK with the raid tactics if they go after the right house.
So let's say they go down the street and do the same raid to the actual Internet toughguy and his parents. They knock for 3 seconds. Grenades everywhere. Point guns at everyone and everything. That's OK? I say it is still a clusterf---. Feel free to disagree.

Yes, we agree that better investigation is needed. The tactics is what I'm commenting on. Just the direction of the muzzles alone showed major negligence.

Yes, you did misread me, because you are confusing separate issues.

Yes, I am perfectly ok with the raid tactics if they are hitting the house of someone who is genuinely dangerous. There are people out there that really are a threat and I don't think the police should just ignore them. The swat team does not conduct the investigation, they do not issue the search warrant, and they do not decide whether to call in the swat team to conduct the search warrant. The team in the video did an excellent job.

Was the "internet tough guy" worthy of a no-knock raid? I don't know enough about the evidence against him to come to a conclusion. Given what we know about the quality of the investigation I seriously doubt there was sufficient reason to conduct the raid, but I do not know that for a fact. Forgive me if I have reason not to simply just take your word for it that there wasn't. I will say that I think no-knock raids should be very rare and should require a thorough investigation that produces significant evidence of a genuine threat and this case, along with many others, gives plenty of reason to doubt that is happening.

 

[gravitas73]

SWAT = all brawn and no brains... scumbag pieces of ****

 

[ModernGunner]

It's PSUSA, so a huge, semi-truck size 'grain' of salt needs to be used before passing judgment.

Is there any other, legitmate, sources available? sources should always be considered 'dubious'.

 

[mrjarrell]

From the other, (original) thread on the idiot SWAT team.

City seeks favorable ruling in SWAT incident lawsuit; police video shows what happened - story

Good enough for ya, MG? Or should we wait for Fox to cover it? Or maybe Limbaugh?

 

[Bunnykid68]

It's PSUSA, so a huge, semi-truck size 'grain' of salt needs to be used before passing judgment.

Is there any other, legitmate, sources available? sources should always be considered 'dubious'.

Well, it did happen here in my hometown Evansville and it happened just like PSUSA stated that it did. It was on the news here and in the paper. And it looked like one big cluster!!#$%$ from the get go.

 

[Destro]

Was the "internet tough guy" worthy of a no-knock raid?

depends on how dangerous you believe armed gang leaders who threaten to blow up police officers and their children are

 

[halfmileharry]

Geez Guys, cut 'em some slack. They've got all them cool clothes and scary plastic gear. They seldom get to dress up and show it off. All is well now as they're on video and happy as can be!

 

[Timjoebillybob]

The swat team does not conduct the investigation, they do not issue the search warrant, and they do not decide whether to call in the swat team to conduct the search warrant.

They don't? I didn't know that Evansville was large enough to have a dedicated swat team that did nothing but just sit around waiting for a call. Aren't most SWAT teams made up of standard officers who do their regular job unless needed?