Fears of Arizona's Immigration Law Are Bogus

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  • BloodEclipse

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    In the trenches for liberty!
    By John Lott
    - FOXNews.com

    It's hard to argue that the requirements of Arizona's new immigration will impose an undue burden.When Arizona's new law was signed on Friday, Hispanics demonstrated outside the state capitol in Phoenix, fearful of what it would mean for them. "If a cop sees them and they look Mexican, he's going to stop me," a 18-year-old Hispanic told the Associated Press. "What if people are U.S. citizens? They're going to be asking them if they have papers because of the color of their skin." The young man claimed that he was that even though he was a U.S. citizen he risked being arrested and put in jail.
    Other news stories discuss Hispanics believing that they will have to have to carry multiple IDs to avoid prison. "Even if you're legal, you're in fear that maybe your driver's license isn't going to be enough or if you're walking down the street and the police stop you," a 21-year-old University of Arizona college student told CNN. "It's a constant fear we're living in and even legal citizens are afraid to go out."
    But it is a dangerous game stirring up fears of people being hunted down and put in jail because of their race or nationality. The law specifically bans picking up someone just because they are Hispanic or even because the person was originally from Mexico or any other country you can read a copy of the law right here. Anyone arrested for a crime must have their immigration status determined before they are released. Thus, it is not just Hispanics who will be required to provide evidence of citizenship

    , but so will all whites, blacks and Asians. If the eligibility for public services depends on citizenship, again, everyone who applies, regardless of race, will have to provide an ID. In other circumstances, law enforcement officials must have reasonable suspicion, not based simply on the person's race or origin, that the individual is an illegal alien before they can ask to check someone's ID.

    Police today already have to deal with the "reasonable suspicion" standard all the time in other areas of law enforcement, and most understand very well how this standard limits what they can do. Police know that they can't pull over drivers for fear that they are smuggling drugs just because they are black. "Reasonable suspicion" requires that the known facts and circumstances are sufficient to convince a person of "reasonable prudence" that a crime has been committed. Obviously in a state such as Arizona, with an estimated half a million illegal immigrants, the vast majority OF illegal aliens are going to be Hispanic. But the reasonableness standard used by Arizona specifically requires something other than just race or national origin.

    The ID requested is hardly draconian: a driver's license, a non-operating identification license, valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification, or "any valid United States federal, state, or local government issued identification." Rather than requiring multiple IDs as some fear, the law clearly says that "any" of the IDs is sufficient. And the notion of having to carry IDs is not something unique to Arizona. President Obama and many Democrats, such as Senator Charles Schumer, support a national ID card, so it hard to argue that Arizona's requirement will impose an undue burden.

    Even if a person does not present the required ID, that doesn't necessarily mean the person faces problems. The new Arizona law requires that "a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person." Today, this is not hard to accomplish quickly as computer records have photographs and other identifying details for people who have state-issued IDs. The only exception to making "a reasonable attempt" is if making that investigation would "hinder or obstruct" a criminal investigation. That isn't going to effect many cases.
    Obama has now instructed the Justice Department to find some way to challenge the new law. It seems very unlikely that they will succeed in stopping the law's primary requirements. Sadly, the president and others are unjustifiably stirring up extreme fears. This might be good short-run politics, but those stoking these fears must realize that their credibility is on the line. Unless some federal law will quickly be rammed through Congress, it will soon become evident that U.S. citizens and legal residents have absolutely nothing to fear.

    I thought the Left always said the Right was the fear mongers. Who would have thought they would lie? :dunno:
     
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    I just want my own private island away from all civilization with a collection of bob dyland and the dead. I'm sick of everyones whiny b.s.
     

    chraland51

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    Riots or demonstrations-----it all depends on which side of the political fence you are located. The tea party functions, no matter how organized and civilized they might, will always be viewed and described in a bad light by the left because they are afraid of the movement and what it stands for. I am finding out that the bammer is one big race baiter.
     

    Expat

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    Riots or demonstrations-----it all depends on which side of the political fence you are located.

    I don't know about that. The tea parties look like a bunch of middle aged and elderly people standing around holding signs with a few in funny outfits trying to sound like Ben Franklin.

    The La Raza people are throwing stuff and attacking police. I see a difference.
     

    Phil502

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    I don't know about that. The tea parties look like a bunch of middle aged and elderly people standing around holding signs with a few in funny outfits trying to sound like Ben Franklin.

    The La Raza people are throwing stuff and attacking police. I see a difference.

    Damn right, so far no one was attacked by the Tea Partiers, that I know of, this is going to be different, especially if Congress seriously takes up Immigration Reform, then the protests are going to get real ugly.
     

    E5RANGER375

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    Damn right, so far no one was attacked by the Tea Partiers, that I know of, this is going to be different, especially if Congress seriously takes up Immigration Reform, then the protests are going to get real ugly.


    let it get ugly. i have no worrys or hessitation to kick an illegal imigrants azz if hes trying to tear up my country or do me or others physical harm. bag'em and tag'em
     

    jedi

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    Good article BE. In reading the ACTUAL LAW (the PDF link in the article) it sure is ssssssoooo much different than all the stuff I have been reading. The law is "adding" another step for AZ LEO (after they have arrested somoene & before they are released they need to verify citizenship status) and the law gives a slew of ways to o that (ie. AZ DL, DL from another other state, any type of gov. id (state ID, etc..) so it's easy (if you are legal or not) to skirt the process. After all it's not hard to make fake IDs you know. Now fake IDs that can be verified is a little harder but still possible.

    Where I think the law losses teeth is even if an AZ LEO arrest and finds out that an illegal is illegal they then have to hand them over to the feds (ICE) for deportation. I know in IN when the PD calls the FEDs to pick up the illegals they (feds) don't always. So I wonder if the AZ LEo has to dropped them off at the fed's house will the fed's take them or turn the AZ LEO away?

    Hum???
     

    BloodEclipse

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    Good article BE. In reading the ACTUAL LAW (the PDF link in the article) it sure is ssssssoooo much different than all the stuff I have been reading. The law is "adding" another step for AZ LEO (after they have arrested somoene & before they are released they need to verify citizenship status) and the law gives a slew of ways to o that (ie. AZ DL, DL from another other state, any type of gov. id (state ID, etc..) so it's easy (if you are legal or not) to skirt the process. After all it's not hard to make fake IDs you know. Now fake IDs that can be verified is a little harder but still possible.

    Where I think the law losses teeth is even if an AZ LEO arrest and finds out that an illegal is illegal they then have to hand them over to the feds (ICE) for deportation. I know in IN when the PD calls the FEDs to pick up the illegals they (feds) don't always. So I wonder if the AZ LEo has to dropped them off at the fed's house will the fed's take them or turn the AZ LEO away?

    Hum???

    The Arizona law was crafted after the Federal law so it would be hard to challenge.
    Basically the State is saying you are not enforcing the law, so we will adopt the law and enforce it ourselves. :D
     

    tyler34

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    The Arizona law was crafted after the Federal law so it would be hard to challenge.
    Basically the State is saying you are not enforcing the law, so we will adopt the law and enforce it ourselves. :D


    that was the way I understood the law is that it was created so they could enforce the federal law that ICE wouldn't.
     

    jedi

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    True BE but from what I read from the AZ LAW the AZ LEO hands over the illegal to the FEDs who are then doing the deportation. I question wheather the feds will actually do the deporation or just release the illegal once they are dropped off at their facility.

    Even if the FED does take the illegal or say the AZ law said that AZ would deport the illegal themselves it still is not going to solve the root issue. Deporting the illegal only "offsets" the issue. In a week or 2 week's time frame that illegal is once again crossing the border.

    So we are only attempting to fix the symptons but not the root cause of the problem.
     

    BloodEclipse

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    True BE but from what I read from the AZ LAW the AZ LEO hands over the illegal to the FEDs who are then doing the deportation. I question wheather the feds will actually do the deporation or just release the illegal once they are dropped off at their facility.

    Even if the FED does take the illegal or say the AZ law said that AZ would deport the illegal themselves it still is not going to solve the root issue. Deporting the illegal only "offsets" the issue. In a week or 2 week's time frame that illegal is once again crossing the border.

    So we are only attempting to fix the symptons but not the root cause of the problem.

    True. While many of the root causes are done on a Federal level, I can't blame Arizona for making this first step. In this case something is better than nothing. I would love other States to follow their lead and then put enough pressure on the Feds to start enforcing laws we already have on the books and then follow that up with other laws, such as no services (education, social, medical...)to illegals, no anchor babies and no jobs.
     

    E5RANGER375

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    yeah first and foremost we need to stop allowing them to bread illegal babies in the U.S. and then call them American Citizens. THEY ARENT BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL BABIES as far as im concerned. this is stupid!!!!!

    also we need to start throwing in jail business owners who hire illegals. once we put preasure on the businesses and these criminals cant get jobs or welfare then they will go back to where they belong.

    oh and start FINING police departments like some local ones in indiana who just let illegals go free. i dont blame the officer on the beat, i blame the chiefs and up!!!!
     

    BloodEclipse

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    yeah first and foremost we need to stop allowing them to bread illegal babies in the U.S. and then call them American Citizens. THEY ARENT BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL BABIES as far as im concerned. this is stupid!!!!!

    also we need to start throwing in jail business owners who hire illegals. once we put preasure on the businesses and these criminals cant get jobs or welfare then they will go back to where they belong.

    Politicians need to quit hiring them as well. ;)
     

    Expat

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    yeah first and foremost we need to stop allowing them to bread illegal babies in the U.S. and then call them American Citizens. THEY ARENT BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL BABIES as far as im concerned. this is stupid!!!!!
    We have family down in southern Texas. They said the pregnant illegals would come over to a Texas hospital emergency room, have the baby (free of charge). Then return to Texas. They have had to close several of the hospitals due to this. They just couldn't afford to stay in business. In addition now they have a US citizen anchor baby.
     

    jedi

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    Great point jediagh but I wonder if by documenting them as repeats they can get in more trouble?

    Not really. If you are an illegal and get cuaght and put into the federal system what happes is you are given a 10 year "sentence" so to speak. This means that you must wait 10 years **BEFORE** you can start the legal process of attempting to get US Citizenship. The process starts by you obtaining a green card, then 5 years later getting your permanent residance and then applying for US Citizenship. I think the process from green card to being naturalized is close to 10 years on a clean case.

    Now say that Jose get caught on Jan 1, 2000. His 10 year sentence would end on Jan 1, 2010. Say he again gets caught on Jan 1, 2001. His new sentence ends on Jan 1, 2011. In essence the "sentence" time does not get "added" to the prior one but gets reset. Off course if Jose is caught multiple times it means that he is never going to do it the legal way anyways. It could be for any number of reason. Lack of knowledge of the laws, lack of money to do it, criminal (ie. violent type, gangbager, etc..), etc...

    also we need to start throwing in jail business owners who hire illegals. once we put preasure on the businesses and these criminals cant get jobs or welfare then they will go back to where they belong.

    Hum.. that really does not help. Sure it tosses in jail the person that helped an illegal but has a huge ripple effect. Lets take your local BK for instance in which you work. The owner hires Juan also and now ICE comes in deports JUAN and tossed the owner in the pen. What about you? Wihout the owner their the biz has to be shut down. So no you too lose your job!

    Me thinks a better soultion is FINE the biz owner. After all MONEY is what really makes biz owners hurt right. 1st offense say is 50% of your quaterly profit (not profit this way the biz can stay in biz and continue to paid it's workers). 2nd offense is 75% of the profit. 3rd+ offense is 100% of the profit.
     

    Skroggster

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    Anyone could say a police officer was profiling if you got stopped. I guess if your not breaking the law, doing something your not suppose to do and have proper identification then you have nothing to worry about right.

    My philosophy is to turn the southern border into what the Berlin wall was like. Any attempt to cross. Shoot em. Put land mines down, razor wire, and armed National Guardsmen there.
     

    jedi

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    My philosophy is to turn the southern border into what the Berlin wall was like. Any attempt to cross. Shoot em. Put land mines down, razor wire, and armed National Guardsmen there.

    Did the Berlin wall stop the flow of germans from one side to the other?
    Recall "the tighter you clench your fist the more star systems will slip through your grasp."
     
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