Feds raid Sabre Defense

[rimfire_crazed]

*Put on your tin hats warning*

Maybe this was a legit raid and Saber was actually breaking the law?

Quoted for truth. Not a single one of us knows any of the facts in the case.

 

[mike8170]

I wonder what they were looking for? Can a warrant cover a search of everything on the premises including employee private property? I would not have consented to any search of my personal property (car and person).

And you would have probably been face down, cuffed, stuffed, and spending 24 hours in an uncomfortable jail cell, just for standing up for your Constitutional Rights. I have had to work with ATF thugs before, and that is my opinion of them, thugs. IMHO, the ATF (with a few other federal organizations) should be disbanded, and declared unconstitutional. I am really interested in why this raid was conducted.

 

[techres]

*Put on your tin hats warning*

Maybe this was a legit raid and Saber was actually breaking the law?

Could be, but we are still waiting on that information in the Cav Arms case two + years later and their guns are long gone IIRC....

 

[curraheeguns]

Can a warrant cover a search of everything on the premises including employee private property? I would not have consented to any search of my personal property (car and person).

Yes, a search warrant can cover anything that you can cover in the probable cause. So if it was written for the entire SD grounds they would have listed outbuildings, cars, storage areas ect. Then you can search any area where the target of the search could possibly be hidden. So it the search was for say "illegal machine gun receivers" then any area or container big enough to contain said item is open for search.

But if the SW was for receivers, you would not have a right to look inside a 3"x3" box, and if you did and found something illegal it would probably be suppressed.

 

[HollidaySlim]

Yes, a search warrant can cover anything that you can cover in the probable cause. So if it was written for the entire SD grounds they would have listed outbuildings, cars, storage areas ect. Then you can search any area where the target of the search could possibly be hidden. So it the search was for say "illegal machine gun receivers" then any area or container big enough to contain said item is open for search.

But if the SW was for receivers, you would not have a right to look inside a 3"x3" box, and if you did and found something illegal it would probably be suppressed.

Thanks for info! I tried to google it, but my google-fu is not the best tonight.

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

"Molon labe" becomes impossible as a philosophy if there's no one from whom people may buy arms.

They're by-passing the root of the problem and salting the Earth, so to speak.

 

[PatMcGroyne]

"Feeding at same trough" means

it is still OUR $$$ that's being squandered! As to searching all vehicles on premises....maybe to see if any "precision" parts had accidentally slipped into a lunch-box. Been there, seen it done. And the original "Мoλόn Λaßэ" was the mantra of sword-wielders, not guns. (ooops! got scooped by curraheeguns) Pat

 

[DRob]

Unique perspective

*Put on your tin hats warning*

Maybe this was a legit raid and Sabre was actually breaking the law?

That can't be true! What would there be to whine about?

 

[birdhunter55]

And you would have probably been face down, cuffed, stuffed, and spending 24 hours in an uncomfortable jail cell, just for standing up for your Constitutional Rights. I have had to work with ATF thugs before, and that is my opinion of them, thugs. IMHO, the ATF (with a few other federal organizations) should be disbanded, and declared unconstitutional. I am really interested in why this raid was conducted.

Which in turn would have given them plenty of time to plant enough evidence to put you away for a long long time!

There is something that smells going on here. Too many strange things coming out of the East that just doesn't add up. How many from congress have suddenly decided to retire? Is there a twisted tie here even though many of the 12 were anti-gun?

 

[curraheeguns]

As to searching all vehicles on premises....maybe to see if any "precision" parts had accidentally slipped into a lunch-box. Been there, seen it done. Pat

Good point, it is possible for a company to force you to allow them into your car as part of your employment.

I have seen this with General Motors. A friend of my fathers was fired when they found a handgun (legal and he had a permit) under his car seat because the rules are no guns on GM property. I think the union got him back as part of a contract negotiation a couple years later but still, what a bummer.

 

[groovatron]

bin Obama knows he cannot get the laws passed to outlaw guns. He's using his BATF to instead harrass and intimidate the manufacturers.

Wow, I'm shocked......you're blaming the president for something you know absolutely nothing about. I suppose it's easier than seeking the facts.

*Put on your tin hats warning*

Maybe this was a legit raid and Sabre was actually breaking the law?

Quoted for truth. Not a single one of us knows any of the facts in the case.

At least some of you have some sense.....the bandwagon is getting a bit crowded these days.

 

[UncleMike]

I can't be, that would put people out of work and we all know 'jobs' are Barry's #1 priority.

Barry's number one priority is to destroy America!

If it is Obama, then he's only hurting himself by trying to take out a manufacturer who helps arm our military.

If you disarm the US military we would need the UN to fight our wars.
How convenient.

If I were firearm manfucatures I'd raise the price of military firearms beyond anything reasoanble. If the government can play hardball so can everyone else.

Exactly what "O" wants.

Because the Pentagon is part of the same machine, and if they squeal loud enough then maybe, just maybe, F Troop will back off. Seems a reasonable tactic to me, since both groups feed at the same trough.

All Caesars, despots, and tyrants began by controlling the military.
Mike

 

[mettle]

Feds raid defense contractor | Make and Buy | NashvillePost.com: Nashville Business News + Nashville Political News

Searched the employees and their vehicles, too...

Wonder how this'll shake out?

-J-

""After almost all of the employees had left the premises, agents brought in a trailer and backed it up to the company's loading dock.""

scary, when a group of unsupervised .gov thugs drive up to your home or facility with an open ended warrant and start confiscating... not much left to do at that point but say goodbye. Like a lot of police, they'll find something for all their troubles.


A question for us on this forum and in this culture: what procedures do you/I have in place to 'move' your firearms in a HURRY to another person house if you caught wind of this...? Sell everything on a 'buy back' to your good friend for a 1$?

 

[Hoosier8]

Probably part of the investigation involving this lawsuit mentioned in the article.

In December of last year, Aerospace Manufacturing Services of Colorado filed suit in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Tennessee claiming that it is owed $1.05 million for 2,400 .50-calibre machine gun firing bolts.

Aerospace Manufacturing Services, Inc. v. Sabre Defence Industries, LLC

Aerospace Manufacturing Services, Inc. v. Sabre Defence Industries, LLC - 3:2009cv01210 - Justia Federal District Court Filings and Dockets

After all, this involves defense contractors.

 

[curraheeguns]

scary, when a group of unsupervised .gov thugs drive up to your home or facility with an open ended warrant and start confiscating... not much left to do at that point but say goodbye. Like a lot of police, they'll find something for all their troubles.

I have written dozens of search warrants, and I can tell you that no such thing as a "open ended" warrant would ever be approved. Search warrants list EXACTLY what the agency is looking for. Plus you have to have enough probable cause to believe the item being search for is there or you wouldn't have the warrant to start with. If you don't belive me about the detail of search warrants then go to the clerks office and read some. They are public information after you "clerk" it.

 

[theweakerbrother]

I plan on buying some Sabre gear to support them.

 

[groovatron]

I plan on buying some Sabre gear to support them.

I was just looking at some of their uppers......they make nice stuff

 

[jsx1043]

Yes, a search warrant can cover anything that you can cover in the probable cause. So if it was written for the entire SD grounds they would have listed outbuildings, cars, storage areas ect. Then you can search any area where the target of the search could possibly be hidden. So it the search was for say "illegal machine gun receivers" then any area or container big enough to contain said item is open for search.

But if the SW was for receivers, you would not have a right to look inside a 3"x3" box, and if you did and found something illegal it would probably be suppressed.

Beat me to it, Corey.


Yeah, this whole thing stinks to me.....

 

[Hoosier8]

I have written dozens of search warrants, and I can tell you that no such thing as a "open ended" warrant would ever be approved. Search warrants list EXACTLY what the agency is looking for. Plus you have to have enough probable cause to believe the item being search for is there or you wouldn't have the warrant to start with. If you don't belive me about the detail of search warrants then go to the clerks office and read some. They are public information after you "clerk" it.

Yes, but the BTAF can make it pretty broad. Here is part of the Waco search warrant:

A quantity of firearms, including but not limited to: an assortment of AR-15 rifles and AK-47 rifles, and parts thereof, along with a quantity of assorted machinegun conversion parts, which, when assembled, would be classified as machineguns, machinerty and implements used or suitable for use in converting semi-automatic weapons to fully automatic and for constructing destructive devices such as pipe bombs, and homemade grenades, this machinery would include, but not limited to metal lathes and milling machines, .50 caliber anti-tank rifle, sten guns, grenade launchers, practice rifle grenades, practice hand grenades, various chemicals, including but not limited to black powder, igniter cord, aluminum metal powder and potassium nitrate, magnesium metal powder, metals in various forms, inert "pineapple" type hand grenades, pipe bombs and parts thereof, and other suitable casings of unknown description which, when assembled, would be classified as destructive devices as those terms are defined in Section 5845 (b), and Section 5845 (f), Chapter 53, Title 26, United States Code, which are not registered with the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record, Washington, D.C., as required by law, and documentary and computerized evidence of receipt, ownership and instructions for converting semi-automatic firearms into machineguns, and the construction of improvised explosive weapons, including computer hardware, peripheral equipment and software containing files and directories and the information theron. This is to include any disks, manuals, printouts and other assorted computer equipment.

 

[cosermann]

Barry's number one priority is to destroy America!

Seems to be. That what the => <= was for (you did get the sarcasim right?).

It's all far to methodical and comprehensive to be mere incompetence.