Five-Seven & Ft. Hood

[dwh79]

Do you think they will try and push for outlawing the FN Five-Seven. They are already claimimg it as a cop killer (Which is ridiculous). This is what I have found the Ft. Hood Shooter used.

 

[MoparMan]

They have been trying this for quite some time. At least the round.

 

[dwh79]

I know they have been trying but this would give them a lot of ammo at least in their eyes. It is a shame that someone could get a gun on to a military base and that no one else is armed and cold fight back. Sadly this shows a large weakness of our military bases here in the US that we are not prepared for an attack domestic or foreign. I hope this is a lesson to our military. Again it also shows why we all should be armed in my opinon or at least have the choice while others will sadly be mistaken thinking that they could have outlawd the guns and saved someone.

 

[MoparMan]

I know they have been trying but this would give them a lot of ammo at least in their eyes.

Hopefully not. People get killed everyday by all kinds of weapons. Im sure it will ad to the case though.

It is a shame that someone could get a gun on to a military base

Its a shame that we are not allowed to bring guns on to a military base

and that no one else is armed and cold fight back.

On a typical Post there are not soldiers running around with weapons with live ammo. Actually there is no live ammo allowed expect for the MP's and such.

Sadly this shows a large weakness of our military bases here in the US that we are not prepared for an attack domestic or foreign. I hope this is a lesson to our military.

I'd rather not comment on this!

Again it also shows why we all should be armed in my opinon or at least have the choice while others will sadly be mistaken thinking that they could have outlawd the guns and saved someone.
Agree!

 

[jedi]

FN Five-seven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hum... those ammo rounds (in the pic in the link) look evil an deadly. Even more so than our 9mm and .45. Anyone have one of these weapons? The winki post does not make much since in this regard:

Particularly significant to the design of the Five-Seven is the 5.7x28mm cartridge created by FN for use in it. This cartridge weighs roughly half as much as a typical 9x19mm Parabellum cartridge[20][21], allowing extra ammunition to be carried more easily. It also produces roughly 30% less recoil[17][21], improving controllability.

If the 5.7 weapon 50% more than 9mm how does it allow for extra ammo to be carried since it's heavier? maybe I'm reading that wrong?
The 30% recoil sounds good though.

Then we have this in the article.

Commercially available variants of the 5.7x28mm cartridge are classified by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) as being not armor piercing[25] and it was claimed that the SS192 and SS196 cartridge variants did not penetrate Kevlar vests in tests conducted by FNH USA.[25]

So where are the "cop killers" ammo then? If what is avaliable to us can not penetrate the vest? Does this mean that the 5.7 is no better/worse than our 9mm and .45?

The 5.7 looks more like a rifle round to me.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So where are the "cop killers" ammo then?

The AP ammo is in a bonded warehouse in South Carolina. It is not sold commerically.

The FN FiveseveN is equivalent to the .22 Jet Mag of the 1950s.

The "cop killer" tag originates from a Brady press release in 2005.

To my knowledge it was never used to kill a cop until Hasan's rampage at Fort Hood.

 

[Disposable Heart]

We see several of them out at the range. They are accurate, low recoiling weapons. I would say slightly lower recoil than a 9mm poly pistol.

I am not a fan of the gun or cartridge. However, when a cartridge needs a letter on the BATF's website to just fly below the radar, I don't think it will be around much longer with the current sentiment and "barely" skimming by. It isn't terribly popular as it is and its only a matter of time now for it I think.

As for the glamourous language and sheer ignorance of the media, same crap different day. They probably used Wikipedia for information, so I take it with a salt mine. There is a reason Wikipedia is free, any hilljack can type garbage on it and it suddenly becomes truth. Weapons like the 5.7 and it's subsequent rifles look evil, the round looks evil and the image of the gun industry making them is evil to lots of misinformed folks. With enough nutcases (school or work shooters) using these weapons, public sentiment will rise against. I didn't like the 5.7 pistol as it was, I really don't care for it now (personal sentiment, I know, but multiply that sentiment by 1000 and you have the anti-gun crowd's feelings).

I would think that soon we will have the arguements popping up regarding need vs. want of "tactical" or "assault" or similar weapons that many do not consider sporting weapons. Yes, we have the constitution on our side, but what has that done so far for our arguement? They can change that at will... We don't "need" weapons like the 5.7, however, we want them, but also it is our right (recindable by error of our ways, like criminal pasts) to own weapons for common good and protection. However, it only takes enough nitwits who shoot out of anger or rage to ruin this argument for us, leading to an inevitable ban.

 

[Fletch]

As for the glamourous language and sheer ignorance of the media, same crap different day. They probably used Wikipedia for information, so I take it with a salt mine. There is a reason Wikipedia is free, any hilljack can type garbage on it and it suddenly becomes truth.

Yes and no. Wikipedia errors are also corrected faster than any other source, and there are thousands of pairs of eyes on every article, watching for such shenanigans. Almost every statement in a Wikipedia article is also footnoted with references for the information presented, and conflicting information is identified as such. I daresay you won't get the same level of quality from your dad's 1973 edition of Encyclopedia Britannica.

I remember the magazine article (I think it was Guns & Ammo) on the Five-seveN when it first came out, and the round was indeed developed specifically with the intention of defeating body armor. The original intent was that the guns and ammo would not be available to civilians at all, but this was apparently modified later. Wikipedia is correct in that it states there are at least 2 different versions of the round: the SS190 armor-piercing round, and the SS192 and SS196 variants which are not armor-piercing by BATFE's current standards.

 

[aikidoka]

Wikipedia errors are also corrected faster than any other source

The ONLY reason I was able to correct false and defamatory content about me that was posted on Wikipedia, is because the asshats were bragging about it in a group I was a member of on myspace.

When it comes to controversial matters Wikipedia can be probelmatic.

 

[cce1302]

The SS190 are not and never were illegal. They were widely available when teh FiveseveN pistol was released. A friend of mine (who happens to be a Marine Major) still has a few boxes of them.

Additionally, the ammo can be handloaded to SS190 velocities.

FN simply stopped selling the SS190 to the general public in order to prevent bad publicity such as this whole debacle. see how well that worked out.

 

[Fletch]

The SS190 are not and never were illegal. They were widely available when teh FiveseveN pistol was released.

Got a source for this claim? Shooting Times says otherwise:

The SS190 load has always been restricted and is shipped from a U.S. Customs controlled warehouse only to military and law enforcement agencies. None has ever been available commercially. The only ammunition available for commercial sale are the sporting-grade 28-grain JHP and the 40-grain V-Max loadings.

 

[indykid]

I have one and yes, the recoil is very light. The standard mags hold 20 rounds, and the extended factory mags hold 30 rounds. As to the pistol being heavy, if you call a 20 ounce pistol heavy you should not play with any 1911 or the Beretta M9!!!!!


jediagh, read the statement closely. The 9mm round weighs approx twice what the 5.7x28 does. You got it backwards. With a 30 round mag, the Five-seveN is still lighter than an empty M9.

 

[dwh79]

My main point on getting the gun on base was not meant as saying whether you should or should not be allowed. It was simply meant to say that if they could get that in a place they should not of then they could have gotten something much worse in and then we could have been talking about more deaths instead of 13. This whole matter is a horrible experience. My cousin is based there but is currently on deployment so she was not there.

 

[cce1302]

My main point on getting the gun on base was not meant as saying whether you should or should not be allowed. It was simply meant to say that if they could get that in a place they should not of then they could have gotten something much worse in and then we could have been talking about more deaths instead of 13. This whole matter is a horrible experience. My cousin is based there but is currently on deployment so she was not there.

Legally you can have any gun on base that you can legally possess, at least on the bases that I have been stationed at. At Camp Lejeune, for instance, I had all my guns in my house on base. I could have had eleven AR-15s, 13 PS-90s, six shotguns, a winchester model 70 and a desert eagle if I wanted to (and had the money).