FN FiveseveN, again.

[rat-man]

Is their home being invaded by "little people?" I know at the range I practice shooting the ankles of the targets.

 

[tdoom15]

@tdoom15
Crush cavity is a myth. Blood loss and psychological incapacititation are how you ,stop human threats with a pistol. Yes, larger calibers will create a larger diameter hole leading to a damaged blood loss and to eventual stoppage. A 5.7 tumbler rolls up through your body, richochets, fragments, and possibly exits causing greater over all blood loss and organ tissue damage. If the round had sketchy stopping power, do you honestly think the secret service would use them?

What?! Crush cavity is a myth? I think you are thinking of temporary crush cavity being effective with any pistol round, as that is a myth. How do you think blood loss occurs? By the permanent crush cavity (aka any tissue damaged by the path of the bullet).

And there are 3 ways that bullets incapacitate:
Psychologically
Enough blood loss caused
Destroying the CNS (quickest way)

Read what i just said. At no point, even at full YAW does 5.7 make a bigger hole than a 9mm JHP. Period. As in, 5.7 does NOT create more blood loss than 9mm JHP.

 

[CPT Nervous]

Is their home being invaded by "little people?" I know at the range I practice shooting the ankles of the targets.

Yeah. I noticed that, too. It's their poster, so...

 

[jmanrogers]

As far as I know the round does a little bit over 2100 fp/s with a 40 grain projectile out of the pistol barrel.
I have a .22WMR 22'' rifle which fires a 40 grain projectile up to 2040 fps, so you can compare 5.7x28 with the .22wmr(out of a rifle). I am not sure what I would do with such a gun chambered in this rather odd caliber, it was made for law enforcement to punch multiple holes into ''objects with hard shells' , but for every day use its IMO not as good as the 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP, - accuracy wise its on par with the great three but its a lot more expensive.

 

[CPT Nervous]

The thing is, as civies, we don't even have access to the armor piercing rounds. They are .22 magnums. That's it.

 

[tdoom15]

The thing is, as civies, we don't even have access to the armor piercing rounds. They are .22 magnums. That's it.

Or full auto, which is what is necessary for the round to be effective.

 

[CPT Nervous]

Exactly.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

was it IIIA? there are vids on youtube that show it penetrating.

Eh, the gun in my avatar will do that... Gun: ~$200 Ammo: ~30 cents/rd

 

[Slawburger]

I shot one today. It was quiet, low recoil, handled well, felt well-made and overall a pleasure to shoot. Availability and price of ammo and parts are a concern though. I have owned low market volume calibers but I am leaning more toward common calibers and firearms now. If they cost too much to shoot or I don't want to shoot my last box of ammo because it is hard to find then it detracts from the fun/usefulness of the firearm. If they were more common then I might consider one because it was fun to shoot.

 

[ApacheTactical]

Hard to tell as 5.7x28 ammo is about as easy to find as gold laying on the street.

As much as I like my FN Five-seveN and my PS-90s, not being able to find ammo and seeing letters from FNH that it will ship eventually makes it hard for me to recommend it anymore. And that is really sad as I really enjoy shooting the two pieces.

Sportsman guide always has ammo. if they are out of stock they are good about sending it one it come in. I order mine 2000 rnds at a time and us the flex pay program. for what ever it is worth to you good luck

 

[indykid]

Thanks! Sportsman"s Guide is on my list of preferred vendors but unfortunately they don't even list 5.7x28 right now.

I too buy it by the case (2000 rounds) and lucky for me bought two when Midway had them on sale for $725 last year.

 

[The Keymaster]

The thing is, as civies, we don't even have access to the armor piercing rounds. They are .22 magnums. That's it.

I will guarantee that my hand loaded rounds will outperform any 22 magnum you wish to put them up against. I will also guarantee you that Elite Ammo has rounds that will make my hand loaded rounds look like they came from a pea shooter.

I have said this many times, with the correct ammo, the FiveSeven, and the PS90 are excellent weapons. They will be my weapons of choice when the time comes.

I have found that most people that criticize this caliber have never owned a firearm that shoots it, and likely have never fired it period.

It's just like anything else some people love it, some people hate it.

 

[CPT Nervous]

I will guarantee that my hand loaded rounds will outperform any 22 magnum you wish to put them up against. I will also guarantee you that Elite Ammo has rounds that will make my hand loaded rounds look like they came from a pea shooter.

I have said this many times, with the correct ammo, the FiveSeven, and the PS90 are excellent weapons. They will be my weapons of choice when the time comes.

I have found that most people that criticize this caliber have never owned a firearm that shoots it, and likely have never fired it period.

It's just like anything else some people love it, some people hate it.

Okay. Then most commercially available 5.7 rounds are ballistically similar to the .22 WMR. Your loads may very well be great rounds, I do not doubt that. I think that the PS90 is a fine weapon, but I also think there are better options out there.

 

[__Doc_]

Someone carrying a 22mag? wat

 

[Hookeye]

What?! Crush cavity is a myth? I think you are thinking of temporary crush cavity being effective with any pistol round, as that is a myth. How do you think blood loss occurs? By the permanent crush cavity (aka any tissue damaged by the path of the bullet).

And there are 3 ways that bullets incapacitate:
Psychologically
Enough blood loss caused
Destroying the CNS (quickest way)

Read what i just said. At no point, even at full YAW does 5.7 make a bigger hole than a 9mm JHP. Period. As in, 5.7 does NOT create more blood loss than 9mm JHP.

4 ways then (tissue/bone structural damage).

BTW, anybody got pics of 5.7 varmint bullet wounds?

 

[dtkw]

My only hesitation on this caliber is the ammo are not as common as salads. A dollar a round is just too much for a little bullets. Maybe I am a cheap thrill after all.

 

[tdoom15]

4 ways then (tissue/bone structural damage).

BTW, anybody got pics of 5.7 varmint bullet wounds?

Nope, just 3. Tissue damage = blood loss. You'll bleed out before dying of broken bones.

 

[tdoom15]

I will guarantee that my hand loaded rounds will outperform any 22 magnum you wish to put them up against. I will also guarantee you that Elite Ammo has rounds that will make my hand loaded rounds look like they came from a pea shooter.

I have said this many times, with the correct ammo, the FiveSeven, and the PS90 are excellent weapons. They will be my weapons of choice when the time comes.

I have found that most people that criticize this caliber have never owned a firearm that shoots it, and likely have never fired it period.

It's just like anything else some people love it, some people hate it.

One doesn't need to own something to know how the bullets perform. Unless you're telling me that you have had multiple engagements on BGs using this platform, you just owning it and punching paper tells me nothing.

The 5.7 pistol is a waste of money as a defense weapon IMO. The PS90 has a very very small niche roll as a concealable PDW, and even then there are much better options out there. Not to mention that FULL AUTO IS A MUST for a weapon like this to be effective. And as I've said before, even if your bullet tumbles all the way through the body (which it doesn't), a 9mm hp will still create more damage.

From Dr. Robert's thread on M4c:


Pat Rogers on 5.7 and 4.6:
”Multiple rounds are required to incapacitate. This means significantly more training, which translates into significantly more ammunition expended, at a higher cost per round and with limited sources available. To ensure immediate incapacitation, brain shots will need to be emphasized. Which requires more training, and also more insertion of luck into the equation- especially dealing with multiple opponents. Limited capability within the system means engagement at anything outside of CQB distances may be problematic. This means movement to objective, egress etc will present a whole new range of difficulties. The gun is easy to shoot and fun as well. This does not always translate well to real world applications. If there is a single reason why these platforms are in any way superior to the M4 FOW, it is not apparent to me.”


A decorated, experienced SWAT officer at a U.S. LE agency that has had multiple OIS incidents with 5.7 mm FN P90's has written the following--note that his comments equally apply to the 4.6 mm MP7:
”The 5.7 pistol as a carry gun is a mistake. There are far more effective weapons and ammunition combinations out there. The only factor that comes close to equalizing the P90 (not the 5.7 pistol) is it's full auto capability: 900 rpm of very controllable fire. Even this advantage is limited to close-in, CQB type engagements. I can put more rounds on target faster with the P90 than with my M4 in close contact engagements. Unfortunately you may HAVE to put more rounds in the threat due to the lack of damage the projectile causes. The 5.56 is far more effective at getting the attention of men than 5.7 mm. This is not speculation. We have been using 30 P90's for five years now. There have been multiple BG's shot with them. We will not be buying more 5.7 mm or other small caliber PDW systems”

- 30 P90's for five years
- 100,000 rounds per year through those weapons
- very reliable weapon
- very user friendly
- very easy to shoot
- everyone happy

- three OIS's later and some unbelievably poor terminal balistic performace we dropped them...quickly.
- 22+ OIS shootings using AR-15's with .223...everyone happy (except the 21 dead bad guys)."


A combat experienced senior SOF NCO currently serving in the U.S. military:
”When employing the MP7 up close, you literally use it like a fire hose and sprinkle 4.6 all over the torso of the guy you want to reduce (usually on Auto, which is a CQB no-go anyway), and you have to keep hosing him down with bullets until his brain figures out that you are filling him in. Usually this takes longer than shooting a NSR with a rifle, so by the time that your brain figures out that the guy has quit and is crumpling, you are almost out of bullets and any other threats in the room have most likely started to engage you. IF your team is on their **** and everyone grasps the true importance of primary/secondary sectors of fire, then perhaps you can get in there and all of your guys can sprinkle 4.6 liberally on all of the bad guys in an efficient manner, but if you fail to do that, then bad things will happen quickly.”

 

[lumpagus1]

I hear people calling their firearms "toys" because they are fun to shoot. It doesn't matter if it's a .22 pistol or a 50 BMG rifle, some people shoot for fun, others for more serious matters (self and home defense, military, law enforcement, etc). If you want to use the Five-seveN or PS90 and the 5.7 x 28mm round for more serious situations then you have to ask yourself "is it going to do what I need it to?". If you are in the group of "well I like to shoot it for fun" then do just that and quit worrying about it's ballistics or lethality. How many people have .338 Lapua's or 50 BMG's? In no way are those rounds or firearms cheap, so I don't see why everyone is so quick to criticize the cost of the 5.7 x 28mm. At the very least both the Five-seveN and PS90 are different guns in both appearance and ergonomics (more so the PS90 then the Five-seveN).

I don't own either but if I did I wouldn't be using it to save my life, I'd use it for fun out on the range and possibly varmints. Personally I think that both are great guns and that they both get WAY too over analyzed.

 

[jd4320t]

If I ever get into the 5.7 game it will be with an AR upper because the pistol and the PS90 make me want to