forgiveness or permission

[bacon#1]

Forgiveness, unfortunately my work has a policy which is a big NO. They even came out with a knife policy a few years ago I had to have HR measure my knife.

 

[OccasionalSh00ter]

6 months isn't that long to be at a job. If they find it, you're probably fired. I could not disagree more with all the advice you're getting (and accepting evidently)

but hey, it's your finances, whatever....

I don't quite understand why you think she would automatically be fired if it is discovered that she is carrying. She has already stated that there is no policy prohibiting it. What makes you think the only possible response is termination?

 

[Spike_351]

i read your bio, it says your occupation is a teacher, mind elaborating a bit?

I conceal carry every day, only my closest friends and family even know i have a gun. There is nothing in my employee handbook about any weapons at all, probably because my boss never even thought about that being an issue in my profession. While i feel very safe at work, im not going to adopt the mindset that "oh, nothing would ever happen here" , to many examples showing otherwise. My boss is very understanding, and i almost want to ask/tell her about it, but i dont want to assume that they will react the way i hope. So my question. Is there ever any reason to tell your boss, or should you always stick to waiting to ask for forgiveness then for permission?

If your a teacher in a public school, then obviously don't continue to carry for legal reasons, a college, well that's a different ball game. Sorry, with a name like concealcarrycutie I felt compelled to look at the ingo profile.

 

[ConcealedCarryCutie]

Its a private school. If it were a public school, and firearms werent in the handbook, then that kind of thing would obviously be understood anyway, but my school, the handbook has all the rules unless my boss themself wants to make new rules, thats my understanding of it anyway

 

[VERT]

If it is a school then no go for carry. You can't even have it in the vehicle. No schools, daycare, etc.

Edit: unless you have express permission from the administrators. My recommendation would be not to carry

 

[ConcealedCarryCutie]

I dont understand why i have to follow government rules, when my school is not regulated, controlled or funded by the government whatsoever. How does that work?

 

[Snapdragon]

dupe

 

[Snapdragon]

Working in a school does change things. See the red text at the bottom.

The Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 was originally passed as section 1702 of the Crime Control Act of 1990. It added 18 U.S.C. § 922(q); 18 U.S.C. § 922 itself was added by the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968.
The Supreme Court of the United States subsequently held that the Act was an unconstitutional exercise of Congressional authority under the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution in United States v. Lopez, 514 U.S. 549 (1995). This was the first time in over half a century that the Supreme Court limited Congressional authority to legislate under the Commerce Clause.
Following the Lopez decision, President Clinton's Attoney General Janet Reno proposed changes to 18 U.S.C. § 922(q) that were adopted in section 657 of the Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act of 1997, Pub.L. 104–208, 110 Stat. 3009, enacted September 30, 1996.[SUP][5][/SUP] These minor changes required that the firearm in question "has moved in or otherwise affects interstate commerce".[SUP][6][/SUP]
As nearly all firearms have moved in Interstate Commerce at some point in their lives, critics assert this was merely a legislative tactic to circumvent the Supreme Court's ruling.[SUP][5][/SUP]

Text of the law

The Gun Free School Zones Act of 1990 (18 U.S.C. § 922(q)) states:
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
(3) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone. (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;
(iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or
(iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity.
(4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.
Definitions

Pursuant to 18 U.S.C.§ 921(a)(25) the term "school zone" means—

(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(26) the term "school" means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.

 

[VERT]

I dont understand why i have to follow government rules, when my school is not regulated, controlled or funded by the government whatsoever. How does that work?

If it is a school that meets the definition of "school" according to IN code then yes the law applies. If the school is basically a bunch of home school kids and is not accredited in any way then maybe not. But yes a private school is a school according to IN law.

 

[Bang-bang]

"Indiana is an at will state, and having a gun at work without your boss knowing is a great way to get canned"
Sorry, but they can fire you for ANY REASON, My boss didnt want me to leave it in my car either, so I reminded her it's legal in the state of Indiana. She cant stop that!

 

[spaniel]

"Indiana is an at will state, and having a gun at work without your boss knowing is a great way to get canned"
Sorry, but they can fire you for ANY REASON, My boss didnt want me to leave it in my car either, so I reminded her it's legal in the state of Indiana. She cant stop that!

However they are much likely to fire you for an emotionally-charged and irrational issue, like carrying a gun when they don't want you to -- even if there is not a policy.

It comes down to risk. Those saying keep your mouth shut have decided it is worth the risk that they will be found out and potentially be out of work. Even if they don't fire you, depending on your job it may come back to bite you in pay, bonus, or advancement. Personally I have a family to feed and not a lot of jobs in my industry in the area, so I'd clear it first.

Then there are employers who have exemptions and you can't even keep it in your car. I'm under that umbrella, very disappointed when they slipped that loophole in at the last minute.

But it sounds like the OP had her question answered and due to her job she's already in significant violation of the law. Everybody who carries has a responsibility to understand applicable laws.

 

[Daggy]

I dont understand why i have to follow government rules, when my school is not regulated, controlled or funded by the government whatsoever. How does that work?

There's a difference between 'private' and 'sovereign'. Indian reservations are mostly sovereign, so they can make their own gun laws and regulations for the most part. A private school is not sovereign, so state law applies. If state law says schools are gun free zones then you have to comply, unless your school is in a reservation.

 

[ConcealedCarryCutie]

Wow, that sucks. I was under the impression my school was in the small exempt nook and craney of that whole thing. Thanks for the info everybody.

 

[247survivalmindset]

I have looked at this several times and apparently, I missed a good portion of the law. Sovereign, does that mean like a church? If a school was part of a church would they be exempt?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I have looked at this several times and apparently, I missed a good portion of the law. Sovereign, does that mean like a church? If a school was part of a church would they be exempt?

Maybe.

It has to meet the IC definition of a school for the laws to apply.

Not all "schools" are SCHOOLS. Yes - it's confusing.

General rule of thumb: If it's "day care" or Pre-K at a church, chances are it's not a school.

If it's a church Kindergarten - it has a good chance of being a school due to how the IC is written.

If it's K through whatever - no matter public or parochial - it's a school.

Head Start is also specifically named in the IC as a verboten establishment - as are LICENSED daycares.

 

[Daggy]

I have looked at this several times and apparently, I missed a good portion of the law. Sovereign, does that mean like a church? If a school was part of a church would they be exempt?

Uh, do you think criminal law of the state of Indiana doesn't apply to a church?

 

[247survivalmindset]

Uh, do you think criminal law of the state of Indiana doesn't apply to a church?

I do not claim to be well educated in law,as it was not my major in college, but a little bit of research will show that many laws of different categories do not apply to churches.

 

[TheEngineer]

This is very ironic...i just had this conversation with one of the owners of my company yesterday. I used to leave my firearm in my truck when i got to work, but a few months ago i started bringing it in with me and putting it in my desk drawer. Maybe it was the frigid weather, maybe it was fear of theft...not really sure but i started bringing it in everyday.

I was helping him submit his application for his LTCH, making sure he printed what he needed, setup the L1 fingerprinting, and showed him where he needed to go for fingerprinting/payment.
When we were finished, i was in a coworkers (and fellow gun guy) office discussing, well what else, guns. The owner came in and sat down to shoot the with us and started asking the typical "new" carrier questions:

"Where do you carry your gun?" Everywhere i can...no federal buildings, schools, etc...Explained that he can legally carry anywhere else, all they can do is ask him to leave
"When do you carry it?" Every day
"You carry it with you EVERYWHERE?" Yes
"So is it in your truck right now?" Its close by
"In your truck?" No, its in my office
"Really? Huh..." (looks at my coworker)
"Where's yours?" He points at his desk drawer

We then continued to discuss where we carry on our bodies (4:00 for me, appendix for him), holsters, belts, etc.

Overall i think it went well...he didn't freak out when i told him i carried at work...I explained that since we didn't have a company policy that i was operating under a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Im anxious to see what happens when he gets to work today

Id be curious what happened if you dont mind sharing. I hope it goes/went well.

Sorry its taken so long for an update...but the end of my work day was interesting

My boss (the company co-owner) shows up, doesn't say a word to me for the first few hours, but that's normal. When he finally steps into my office, he has a new S&W M&P Shield 9mm in his hand...it was the gun he bought for carrying. I think "Awesome!! Not only is he cool with me carrying at work, he is going to start!"

He sticks the gun out to hand it to me, my eyes shoot towards his hand and i notice the mag isn't in there. I take the gun and immediately lock the slide back and visually inspect to make sure that it is clear before i commence to "coon finger" it. I was reminiscing...i had one for about a month but had to sell it to pay for the Mrs textbooks.

I mention something about field stripping it..."Whats that?" I explain and demonstrate...then i lock the slide back and hand it back to him. He shoves it in his back pocket and starts to walk out the door.

I say one last thing about it being a great gun, but i was inaccurate with it (only took it out time before i had to sell, so no time to really get used to it). I mention that it was most likely due to me being used to shooting larger pistols and having too much finger on the trigger...this is where things got scary.

He raises the gun up, points it at my head, closes one eye (as if lining up a shot), and tugs at the trigger (safety on, so no "give")

I froze I knew the gun wasn't loaded...he didn't have a mag on him and i had just handed it back to him empty...but i still froze. I guess i was hoping he would realize where he was pointing and quickly drop it and apologize...but that didn't happen. He kept me in his sights for 3-4 seconds before i burst out a "Don't do that" command...i say command because that's what it felt like, i felt like i was scolding a child...except this child is a 60+ year old man and signs my paychecks.

He then lowers the pistol and continues to "eye up his shot" at the ground. He puts it back in his pocket and says something to the effect of "Not sure if I'll carry this much...ill let you buy it off me someday".

Im not happy about the situation...im not happy that he doesnt know better than to point a gun at someone, im not happy about how i reacted or how long it took me to react. I just hope that when the situation is different and i have a gun pointed at me, i will react accordingly and not freeze up.

I want to suggest to him that he takes a NRA basic class...just not sure how to bring that up just yet

 

[Daggy]

I do not claim to be well educated in law,as it was not my major in college, but a little bit of research will show that many laws of different categories do not apply to churches.

Well, churches are exempt from income tax and it can discriminate membership based on religion. There's probably a couple more, but basically the state exempt churches because it wants to, not because it has no legal power over them.

 

[Spike_351]

your welcome, im surprised no one asked about the occupation first.

Wow, that sucks. I was under the impression my school was in the small exempt nook and craney of that whole thing. Thanks for the info everybody.

Hh