General question about ranges/clubs

[Greg.B]

Earlier in the year, due to a physical move to the other side of town, I checked into a couple of clubs to see if they were accepting members, and sent an email to them inquiring about joining.. I already joined one and think I'm going to be happy there, but tonight I got an email back from one of the others (they said it got overlooked), and was a little put off by one of the statements in it:

There are a few things you need to know about the process. We are a mens club. That is not to say that your wife or girlfriend can't come to the club. What it means is that women can't be members or come to our monthly meeting, any other time is fine.

So, I was just wondering; is this a common thing with clubs that everyone belongs to that women can't be members or attend the meetings?

Honestly, even if I hadn't joined another club already, that would have been a deal breaker for me, and I just wanted to see what everyone else would think of it. Not that my wife would even want to join officially or go to the meetings, it just doesn't sit right with me....

Yes, I know they're a private organization, so please don't go there; again, I just wanted to see what others think about the practice!

 

[Biohazard]

Sounds like BS to me. It would be a deal breaker for me too.

 

[Greg.B]

That's what I thought too (BS), and the more I thought about it, the angrier I became. So, I decided to share my thoughts with them on the subject:

Thank you for the reply, although I've already signed up for membership with another organization.

Despite that, I must say that I'm a little surprised by the fact that you emphasize that [club name removed] is a men's club, and that women can't be members or attend meetings. No disrespect intended, I simply want you to know how that influences my family and myself.

As supporters of the 2nd Amendment, I find it apalling that you would dissallow a group of people with similar interests based on their gender. While many of us exercise our 2nd Amendment rights and attempt to ensure those rights for future generations, policies such as the one you have in place only serve to divide and isolate a segment of our like-minded population. In the face of the threats to our rights that are present in todays world, I believe that it is more important that we join together so that our voices are heard as one, and that we not allow ourselves to be divided creating gaps where the attacks can work their way in.

While I am aware that you're a private organization, and that as such you set your own policies, I want to remind you that myself and my family also have rights. We have the right to choose what organizations we do and do not support, and because of your policy against females being members or attending meetings, we choose to take our support, our time, our money, and our interests, elsewhere.

Again, thank you for taking the time to respond to my inquiry, and I wish you the best.

No disrespect to anyone who may belong to a club like this; that's your right to do so. I just don't think it's a good policy to have when it comes to firearms, shooting, and the 2nd Amendment. I do know some single females who shoot, and are members of clubs and ranges; rules like this would prevent them from joining, and take away their ability to participate in an activity that they enjoy and believe in.

 

[Biohazard]

For being angry that was a well worded and measured letter to them. If they respond, please post their response.

 

[Mr. Habib]

That is a load of. Every gun club I've belonged to not only allowed women, they were officers, too.

 

[bigcraig]

I suppose I will be "that guy" on this subject.

I have no problem with the current club rules, in regard to female membership. Nothing against the ladies, but it sounds like, to me any way, that the club is a mens club first and a gun club second. Nothing wrong with that at all.

I put this arguement in the same regards as womens only health and fitness clubs, they have their reasons for exclusions, and I am OK with that too.

Also, why I am a firm pro 2a guy, I don't personally believe that clubs of this nature do any harm to our cause.

Sorry, I just don't see this as a big deal.

 

[Joe Williams]

Whatever floats their boat. I wouldn't join them. My wife is an integral part of my enjoyment of the shooting sports. Feel the same way about gun stores. While I've not had it happen in IN, we have gone into gun stores where they treated her like crap, or ignored her. Things like her asking a question, and the sales rep looking at me and answering, giving me the gun, etc.

Worst was a store in PA, where they'd already dumped on her once. She was asking the guy about the .17HMR cartridge, something neither of us knew much about at the time. The dude wandered off in the middle of her question. Just walked away, not even to help another customer. She was hot, and we bought the gun at Dick's an hour later. We'd always had good service at the store, though I'd always been the one asking questions and buying things. Talked her into going back to look for a .22 pistol she was interested in. I'm standing back, with two carts full of camping and hunting crap. She's standing at the rather busy counter. The guy had seen her come in, and was taking customers in turn. Until it was Cathy's turn. Then he went, stood in front of her, looked her in the eye, yelled "next," and walked off. Cathy stood there for a second with her mouth open, I was hot and was walking up to rip him a new one... then from Cathy's mouth came the most epic, 1/2 hour long, butt chewing I've ever heard anyone issue. Nobody who knows my quiet little wife would have ever seen what came out of her mouth LOL. Manager came over, and she lit into him, too. I just gathered up Sean, and stood out front listening and laughing, waiting for them to kick her out. Reckon they were too flusted, they never did. We never went back, and ever since then she's nearly always been the first of us to make contact with the sales reps. If we don't like the way she's treated, we go elsewhere.

 

[Greg.B]

I suppose I will be "that guy" on this subject. <SNIP>
Sorry, I just don't see this as a big deal.

I won't label you as "that guy" at all, and appreciate your thoughts. We're all free to make our own decisions and will have our own perspective on it. It's just that I had never encountered that type of rule before, and wanted to see if it was common.

... then from Cathy's mouth came the most epic, 1/2 hour long, butt chewing I've ever heard anyone issue. Nobody who knows my quiet little wife would have ever seen what came out of her mouth LOL. Manager came over, and she lit into him, too. I just gathered up Sean, and stood out front listening and laughing, waiting for them to kick her out.

That's so funny; they deserved it, but trust me, I know what you mean; my wife's the same way!

For those curious, I did receive a response from them, and have included it below. Their website mentions that they offer "archery, fishing, and various shooting disciplines". It also says that it's members "can hang out with the boys', so I suppose in a way one could take it to be implied that they are a mens club, even though that's not mentioned anywhere specifically and they promote themselves locally as a shooting club. I've heard of them for many years, and never once have heard that they were a men's club.

Their response, with only the club name, greeting and closing names removed:

I'm sorry to have had to emphasize that point. We have had situations in the past where people were not told prior to joining and I wanted you to know up front. I respect your decision and completely understand. I would like to say that [club name removed] is not merely a place to shoot, and that for many men it is a place to go to get away for a few hours. I'm sure that you have seen our website and are aware that we have much more than shooting to offer. Some of the events we have are: Valentines Dance, Kids Easter egg hunt, summer dance, family picnic, fourth of July picnic, Kids Halloween party, Kids Christmas party. All of these are geared towards family, and despite being a mens club we are very family oriented. I have a two year old girl and a four year old boy that i have been taking to the club since they were babies, and my wife also goes to the club with me a lot. I don't know of any other shooting clubs that have all of the activities that we have. I am by no means trying to argue with you, just trying to provide a slightly different point of view.

So regardless, it is what it is. I won't be joining them even though they're 2 miles from me, and the other two places I've joined are 20 to 25 miles. It's just unfortunate, at least to me, that they have that policy in effect.

 

[bglaze]

/shrug

Even though at first glance it seems misogynistic. Once you realize that it is a Men's club first, and after reading the response from the club, I actually think it's kind of cool.

Just like I have no problem with women having any form of "women's only" club they want. I believe men's only clubs are fine too.

I don't think I would have any use for a club like this myself, but I don't see a problem with it.

I don't think this is common, however. I don't know of any clubs like this near me. The local gun club that I am a member of is a gun club first, and there are plenty of female members. Plus each membership is a family membership (it includes everyone in the primary member's immediate family).

So yeah, if it's not for you, I wouldn't be joining it either. However, I wouldn't let it upset you. It really seems like it is a men's club that has a lot of activities available to its members and not a "gun club" per se...

Interesting post

 

[Que]

I am about to get on a slippery slope, so please don't shove me over...

I see nothing wrong with private clubs that require their members to be a certain gender, political or sexual preference, or even race, as long as public funds are not used. Everyone has the same right to create a club for their preferred membership if they would like. Now, that being said, would I join a club with these stipulations? Yes, because I am a member of a fraternal organization, which only accepts men and my church only ordains man for leadership. These are organizations that I give a great deal of money to, but they are not publicly funded in any way.

Just my , but I certainly get your point and there is no right or wrong. I just want to look at the situation more broadly.

 

[Walt_Jabsco]

Am I the only person who has a problem with a men's club existing at all? Sexism, much like racism, has no place in modern society. Discrimination is discrimination, whatever form it takes.

 

[Kingrat]

im pretty sure i know which club you are talking about, i live out on the west side not too far from it and i have to drive all the way on the other side of newburgh to go to the red brush (best range in swi) where i am a member at, the rules there kinda suck anyway so no loss

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

As long as they are upfront with their rules, and it looks like they have been, then I don't have a problem with it.