Groups Size With Electronic Sights

[NKBJ]

For those that shoot rifles with the electronic (fuzzy red dot and ring type reticle) holographic sights, how good of groups are you able to produce? Sights like the EOTech.
At fifty?
At a hundred?

This is my second try at this topic.
Stuck it in the wrong place the first time.

 

[Bfish]

I've never had a problem with how a rifle shoots with an eotech. I mean it's not bolt gun high power optic groups but nothing to complain about.

Tight groups are not the purpose of the kind of sights you are talking about.

 

[Markus]

Stuck it in the wrong place the first time.

 

[Crbn79]

I agree, eotech isn't really a "tight group" kind of sight at 50/100 yards unless you're shooting supported. Even in that case 1/2 of a center reticle movement at 100 could develop into an 8 inch group. Stock, those type of sights have 0 magnification and are more of a close range urban fighting sight. Throw it into a bench vise though, I'm certain you will easily reach the shot group limits of the rifle.

 

[mrunnebo]

I use an Trijicon RMR on my 50 Beowulf and I have close to 1 inch groups at 100 yards shooting prone.

 

[Crbn79]

I use an Trijicon RMR on my 50 Beowulf and I have close to 1 inch groups at 100 yards shooting prone.

My 502HO prius runs a helva 1/4 mile when I can keep it on the ground.

 

[vernw]

It really depends on the dot size and the design of the target you're shooting at. If you're lucky enough to have a target that lets your center the dot with precision (like a circle bullseye that is just barely larger than your dog appears at that distance) shooting down to one MOA is very doable at 50 or 100 yards provided the gun and Ammo combination is capable of that small a group.

I have dots of some type on all my hunting guns because of "Old Eyes", so my experience is fairly extensive. I generally try to stay with a 2-3 MOA Max dot size on long guns if I can and not over 5-6 MOA on handguns. Some folks have found a x-hair reticle to provide a more precise hold as well.

One of of the MAIN things I've found when sighting in a dot or when testing group sizes is TURN THE BRIGHTNESS WAAAAAY DOWN. Granted you won't hunt with it that way, but when shooting paper you'll get your tightest groups when you have to strain to just barely see the dot.

At least that's what works for me and my friends, but YMMV of course.

 

[vernw]

Also, if you have a dot that is not "round" (a lot of the really cheap sights have weird shaped "dots"), it will be more difficult to shoot them with much precision.

I've also found some of the dot within a circle reticles to be good if f you can line up the outer circle with something on your paper target.

Hope this helps....

 

[Deadeye(+)]

I've not shot mine very far and probably a fluke but I got a dime sized group at 35 yards with a cheap truglo red dot

 

[natdscott]

And to add to what Vern wrote, IF you have an outer circle with a dot in the middle, and you want to shoot great groups, then use the circle, on round bull target that is approximately 50-75% of the perceived diameter of that circle, and FOCUS on the reticle, NOT the TARGET. This is CRITICAL for shooting good groups, and is not discussed very much 'these days', but is SO much harder to do with a magnified optical sighting system because the sights and the target are in the same visual plane.

All that paired with the generous exit pupil of most "combat dot" type scopes means that you really have to be on YOUR game to shoot well with one.

For group shooting, until you get to about the glass quality level of a Mark 4 or Leupy Comp scope, I'd either rather leave the stupid dot turned off (because of flare), or just shoot with a good set of irons.

-Nate

 

[hammer24]

If I flip up my rear sight to view the dot, the fuzziness at distance largely goes away. Rested with a 2MOA dot, I'll normally group about 4" at 100 yds.

 

[natdscott]

Uh.

Whut?

(please explain what you mean Hammer)

-Nate

 

[Crbn79]

If I flip up my rear sight to view the dot, the fuzziness at distance largely goes away. Rested with a 2MOA dot, I'll normally group about 4" at 100 yds.

Uh.

Whut?

(please explain what you mean Hammer)

-Nate

I believe he's referring to stacking sights, in which case you're getting a 4 inch group on your iron sights.

 

[hammer24]

Uh.

Whut?

(please explain what you mean Hammer)

-Nate

Cowitnessed irons with reddot...looking through the rear iron at the dot will sharpen the dot and aid in accuracy at distance. The OP was asking about reddot accuracy at 100 yds., and I gave a tip that was helpful to me.
Ultimately the sight is is not designed for fine accuracy.

Edit: I didn't read closely enough about the specific sight the OP was siting, but have used such sights (without cowitnessed irons). I would assume the same principle would apply with the ring around the dot. If not ....Mean Culpa...

 

[natdscott]

Roger that, hammer. That's what I thought you were saying, but I wasn't 100% sure. That's an unorthodox approach to the use of a cowitnessed BUIS, but if it is consistently working for the purpose you need, then it is without reproach.

I doubt that the dot's actual flare from optical aberration(s) is reduced by using the iron, but the increased depth of field provided by that aperture closer to the eye is a real plus for focal clarity. Too, the reduction in the effective exit pupil of your sighting system provided by that iron FORCES you to consistently align your head on the rifle, which is a real key to shooting the AR well. Low power combat optics do NOT do this, so it seems you may have kind of robbed from one system to improve the other's ability to do it's job.

Fact is, ACOG's and the like were never intended for precision work. If they can be made to do so (and they can), it is the same story as A2 irons: it is performance despite the equipment, not because of it.

Hammer, I'll bet if you put a 4 MOA inside-diameter donut target of about 1/2 MOA line thickness down there, and work on focusing JUST on the dot floating within the circle, you will cut that 4 inches in half.

-Nate

 

[Hop]

Looking through the rear peep is a valid way to reduce the "bunch of grapes" astigmatism effect. You are using less of your eye's messed up lens to focus on the reticle making it appear sharper (and a bit darker).

OP asked about a holographic sight. That would be an EOTech (getting a lot of talk here lately). They usually have 1 MOA aiming dots and 65 MOA circles. I really don't know why people say they are fuzzy. Are people thinking it's fuzzy because the laser speckles?

I'll have to try this but don't think looking through a rear peep will work on an EOTech like it does on an RDS.

I've shot a few 1 MOA groups with mine. I had a 3x magnifier on it at the time.

 

[Yote7mmSlayer]

I have a Burris FF2 and I can hold 1 1/2" groups with it at 100 ... .223

 

[vernw]

They're good sights. I really like the FF3 too once I cut out the side of the plastic sun cover so I could reach and feel the power button.

 

[NKBJ]

Third Saturday ago I shot Samantha (that's the wifes AR she named for her favorite character on the Stargate series). She wanted the EOTech because that's what she was trained on. I'd never shot it much. So, I ran 29 rounds fast fire through it into a three to four inch group at fifty yards. The fuzzy red bugged me. It was distracting actually. Not to mention that over the years I haven't shot her rifle so I have no muscle memory for it. Gets better with practice no doubt. Thought I'd inquire as to how others shoot with such.
Thanks for the input fellas.

 

[buddy17]

I agree that lowering the brightness on an EOTech type sight helps tremendously, but I don't know how people can get 3" or less groups with them at 100+ yards. Let alone, shooting out further with one!